Richardson 1282 boiler

brooklyn_brit

We're looking to buy an old house in Brooklyn and it has this ancient thing in the basement - a Richardson 1282? We've been told it's a gas and hot water system.

Though it seems to work, our assumption is that it would be best to replace it before we move in because the cladding probably has asbestos.

Do readers agree? and is it really 80+ years old? That seems wild!

pecmsg

without taking samples and analyzing it I cannot say 100% that it is Asbestos but I’m fairly certain it is.

bburd

80 years old? Probably closer to 100 or more. It may be the original boiler in that house.

Steamhead

@brooklyn_brit , yes, they built things to last back then. It's probably original to the system. Unless a pump has been added, which I doubt, the water circulates by gravity. Originally it burned coal, then was converted to gas.

We call it a "snowman" boiler, because of the white coating which I would say is asbestos until proven otherwise.

There's probably an expansion tank located in the attic or a top-floor closet. This gives room for the water to expand as it is heated. Nowadays these tanks are placed in the boiler room.

Regardless, it's probably around 40-45% efficient, and parts for that conversion burner can be hard to get (unobtainium?). I'd replace it on that basis. Any good cast-iron boiler, sized to the actual heat loss of the house, will work fine and last for decades if properly installed. You may need to have a stainless-steel liner installed in the chimney too, because of the lower exhaust temperature a new boiler would have.

Some folks will say to use a super-efficient condensing boiler, but they need more maintenance, and I've had some interesting experiences finding parts for them. Also you can't exhaust them into a chimney, and not all houses have proper sidewall exhaust locations.

The most important factor is a good contractor. Here's a good place to start:

https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/state/NY/

EdTheHeaterMan

It takes a special kind of plumber/heating contractor to do the replacement of that boiler just right. I would get at least 2 estimates for that replacement job. Use the Find a contractor link @Steamhead posted. You may be surprised as what that job is going to cost, especially when the actual wholesale replacement boiler cost is only $2,XYZ.00 and the retail price to the consumer is over 5 times that much, or more. There is a lot to getting that old one out and the new one in.

The other important point is selecting the correct size based on a heat loss calculation. You don't need 200,000 BTU input boiler if the home only needs 48,000 BTUh to stay warm on the coldest day of the year. Anything bigger that what you need can end up being more expensive to operate. That means that you will pay more for a bigger boiler so you can pay more to operate it. You don't want that.

JUGHNE

How much of the piping can you see in the basement?

It also most likely has the same insulation, that A word.

You can have the boiler asbestos removed separately from the rest of the piping.

However it is good to have it all gone.

Seller should give you a good allowance for the abatement and also new boiler, IMO.

Somebody here will want that gauge and door.

EBEBRATT-Ed

T answer your questions:

Yes, it should be replaced

Yes, probably 100% that it has asbestos

Yes, at least 80 years old and probably the original boiler.

Their are a bunch of good contractors in NY @JohnNY , @EzzyT and @Mad Dog_2

mattmia2

it does look like a modern gas valve has been retrofitted to the conversion burner so as long as parts of the burner itself don't rust out or crack (some versions of that type of burner have a refractory disc on top of the burner that is prone to cracking after 3/4 of a century or so and no longer available) parts are available for the burner for someone that knows what they are doing.

if a mod con or a conventional cast iron boiler is the right choice depends on subtle details of the installation and even then is still usually pretty subjective. bringing a mod con vent out a sidewall can be less expensive than fixing a deteriorating chimney, bringing a vent out the sidewall can be challenging in some installations. mod cons usually take up less space. conventional boilers will need return water temp protection on a gravity conversion. a mod con can be more efficient and even on a gravity conversion. many times a cast iron boiler can last 2x or more longer than a mod con although neither will last as long as that original boiler.

I think i see a bladder type expansion tank in the closet above the boiler.

brooklyn_brit

Thank you all for your contributions - I had never heard of a gravity system before! Does that mean changes are needed to the pipes & radiators when fitting a modern system with pump? So far we've allocated $20k to replace this beast, is that the right ballpark?

mattmia2

you for the most part just need to change the boiler and install a circulator. in some cases there are orifice plates in the unions for the radiator valves in second floor radiators to slow the flow on the second floor and increase the flow to the first floor because the gravity circulation effect will be stronger on the higher radiators. If that is the case you have to remove them from the upper floor and move them to the lower floor. You can also use the radiator valves for balancing.

removing enough of the asbestos to remove the old boiler and connect the new boiler will not be a small task, especially in that closet. that closet may have to go or you may have to use a powered vent boiler because that grill in the door probably isn't sufficient for combustion air.

Gjansen

I’m in the process of doing just that. My 120 year old boiler was caked in asbestos. Originally coal fired, then converted to natural gas in the 50s. Not one repair needed in 25 years of owning the house. The reason I had it removed is if I ever go to sell the house, I want something newer that will pass inspections and no asbestos. I had asbestos all over the boiler and all over all the pipes from it in the basement. It was $5200 to have all the asbestos and all the pipes and the old boiler removed. I didn’t think that was so bad. They had a crew of 4 or 5 workers here for two days. They earned every penny. I had to move everything in the basement away from the overhead pipes. They sealed the entire basement with plastic walls and hallways, make a temporary shower, and on the day of the removal were banging and hammer all day long. Bought the crew lunch. Now I have to run PEX lines to the new boiler location. High efficiency tankless, so I ended up with $4500 in rebates from the utility companies. It had been bugging me for years having that old thing in there. Too costly to have all the components upgraded. I think your estimate of 20,000 is about right, but that may not include the asbestos removal which is usually handled by a separate company because of all the testing and special disposal practices. Good luck!

PC7060

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1899937#Comment_1899937

Modulating condensing boiler or tankless hot water heater? I hope it’s a mod con because tankless domestic hot water heating are typically unsuitable for home heating applications .

mattmia2

please edit to remove pricing, we can't talk about prices of services.

usually there is asbestos in the walls on the risers that is impractical to remove.

asbestos was used(and possibly still is in some applications) in so many applications that any house over about 40 years old almost certainly has some asbestos somewhere if you know what to look for. it was used in the backing of some flooring, it was mixed in to the floorcovering material of other products, it was used in adhesives, caulks, roof cements and other asphalt products, plasters, joint compounds, patching materials, glazing compounds, high temp wire insulation, and it was even mixed in to some formulations of bakelite to reinforce the product.