Large steam trap identification

Spoolin

Hey everyone, I have a customer whos been having issues with banging in the condensate return lines in their house. When I arrived I noticed everything working as it should but the very large and very old steam trap made by Barnes and Jones did not have any water in the sight glass. Can someone help me figure out a replacement or a repair kit for this trap? Also in the picture about the trap is another kettle style trap with a vent on the top andni noticed live steam coming from there as well which is further making me think the main trap seized and it letting steam reach the condensate return and cause the banging. All help is appreciated thank you!

Steamhead

That's a Boiler Return Trap- basically a pressure-powered pump that can return water to the boiler if its pressure is too high for the water to return by gravity. See chapter 15 of @DanHolohan 's excellent book "The Lost Art of Steam Heating Revisited", available on the Store page of this site.

The smaller device above it is the air vent for the entire system.

Which condensate lines are banging? If it's the overhead ("dry") ones, you probably have a bad radiator trap letting steam get into them.

mattmia2

is this just a conventional 2 pipe system or is it a vapor system?

AndythePlumber

hunt around for some crossover traps going from your main to dry return. Crucial in these vapor systems. A lot of the times they’re disguised as tees. Tees that used to have a crossovers but leaked one hoary winter night and were removed by a weary serviceman ages ago. If the trap is still there, replace the element or the whole thing. As for the return trap. Don’t replace it unless you’re damn sure you know what you’re doing. It’s similar to a Dunham 1a and it needs to be installed just so. Elevation and check valve location are everything to get these systems operational at their intended pressure. Ounces not pounds. I highly recommend a vaporstat and a trusted pressure gauge reading ounces.

EBEBRATT-Ed

If it has a boiler return trap it is vapor.

Spoolin

thanks for all the feedback so far. A little more info about the job, customer had the new boiler installed a few years ago, this season being the first time the banging started. There is a couple vaporstats on the boiler to measure ounces. I’ve checked around for other traps that’s could be hiding and I found nothing of the sort and no evidence of one being replaced. The boiler water color is also purple and the customer had told me that the company who installed the boiler also treated the system with 8 way after the install. Hopefully the it was done correctly and the ph is where it needs to be. Im not super familiar with this type of steam setup and I was just looking for some insight. Ill try and go back and get more info soon

mattmia2

is the pigtail for the vaporstat clear? is the water level a little lower than it normally is? too much additive can cause the water to prime under certain conditions which would effectively lower the water level. a common problem with vapor systems is that wet returns form a water seal between a drip from a main and a drip from a return and a boiler with a lower water line can bring that connection above the water lone and allow seam to follow from the main trough the wet return in to the dry return.

if the new water line is marginal for the system it might only happen when the water line in the boiler is lower and/or the pressure differential between the mains and returns is greater.

Jamie Hall

You found no other traps hiding? Odd. There have to be either crossover traps (they will look just like radiator traps, but above the mains over the associated dry returns) at the ends of the mains or main vents at the ends of the mains. And if there are crossover traps, check that they are operating. Also check the radiator traps, if this system uses radiator traps (not all do).

There may be drips at the ends of the mains connecting to a wet return; there may also be drips from the associated dry return at more or less the same location. Make sure that the wet return at that location is positively BELOW the water line of the boiler.

Double check the operating and cutout pressures of the boiler. Operating should be 2 to 4 OUNCES per square inch and cutout must not be more than 8 OUNCES per square inch.

mattmia2

is b&j its own vapor system or did they buy some other company and rename it?

Steamhead

They have been making Vapor equipment for decades.