Rectorseal 8 Way and higher boiler preassure readings

JaymeHart

So I added a bit too much Rectorseal 8 way to my single pipe steam boiler. It was surging, so I bought a pH meter. Reads 10.8. Not too crazy. I added about half a quart, for about 10-12 gallons of water.

I am flushing it down anyways to get the gunk out, and I will eventually get it back to about 9 or 9.5

but i am curious:

when the boiler was previously operating, it was consistently hovering steady a 5in of Water on the guage during most of the cycle.

with the excess rectorseal in there, my 0-30in Water guage bounces all over the place. and it definitely is producing that higher pressure in the pipes, I hear the main vents hissing more. and my pressuretrol set at 1psi actually engages.

my question, whats going on inside the boiler? its not just foaming. does more basic water boil differently, and steam faster? what causes the higher pressure?

edit: 10-12 gallons is based on the 5-6 gallons in the steam boiler, and another 5-6 gallons circulating through a hot water loop.

pedmec

Water quality is very important in a steam boiler. 10.8 on a scale is a very large problem when you should be under 8.5. your doing a disservice to your boiler. Flush all that crap out and I think your gonna see big difference with your water line. if you still get surging you need to look elsewhere. Is it a new install?

JaymeHart

i thought 9-10 ph was recommended here?

i am flushing. that was part of the plan. the rectorseal 8way instructions said add, the flush out fully sfter 2.5 hours of steaming, then re- add to target pH.

new boiler replacement, but that hot water loop was pretty dirty. lots of rust coating some of the pipes, including new pipes on the boiler after just a month.

109A_5

@ethicalpaul may have the best opinion on excessive chemistry boiler behavior. You may have freed up enough junk that polluted the water into bad behavior. I'd flush it out and maybe skim it, you can always add more 8-Way later if desired.

Captain Who

It could be more alkaline than you think if you didn't calibrate your pH meter with some reference pH 10.0 solution. Alkalinity above 11 (maybe even 10.5) or so can cause foaming, surging, carryover, and priming and it can be worse or less depending upon the quality of the water in the boiler such as Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) and Total Suspended Solids (TSS). If your TSS is above 50 ppm from loosened stuff by the 8-Way that could be giving you surging and carry over. TDS is actually problematic if it is too low sometimes but that probably rarely happens in a boiler even with distilled water because the system is usually scaled up from years of previous use. I think you don't want it below 500 to 1,000 ppm or above 2,000 to 3,000 ppm.

The Rectorseal 8-Way does have phosphate in it to buffer the pH and that is supposed to keep the alkalinity from going too high. Boilers tend to get less alkaline during operation over time due to things like carbonic acid accumulation. That's what happens in mine. I'm fine with distilled water (my tap water is too high in hardness and chlorides) and 2 oz. per gal of 8-Way believe it or not and my pH after a month was down to 10.0. I didn't test it initially. No surging in the sight glass at all. I'm not recommending that for others because it is almost twice what the bottle says and I am using preboiled rebottled distilled water which very few people do. Also my system is very dirty from 100 years of operation probably without proper water or treatment and carry over and my returns are always pretty dirty which I'm hoping will be getting better over time now.

ethicalpaul

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1890175#Comment_1890175

9-10 is higher than Weil-McLain wants but I think they are too worried.

You just want it higher than 7 but not crazy high.

Keep in mind don’t test it hot, that gives a false reading. Let your sample cool first.

Don’t add any 8-way until your water in your new boiler is nice and clean after skimming and washing.

If it’s surging/carrying over then you have to drain and/or skim and then try again. Add less 8-way than the directions say, like 1/2-1/3

No one should be worried about too few solids in their water, that’s a red herring.

If everyone had a sight glass on their steam supply they wouldn’t have to guess.

https://youtu.be/jvt8qxBaRJU?si=HmUeKUi-WP2PNk3W

ethicalpaul

new boiler replacement, but that hot water loop was pretty dirty. lots of rust coating some of the pipes, including new pipes on the boiler after just a month.

it sounds like you are talking about rust on the outside of the pipes. That isn’t going to affect your boiler’s behavior but control your humidity in the boiler room to reduce that

Captain Who

FWIW this is what Peerless now says in the installation manual. ph 7.5 to 11 is a HUUUUGE range (3,200 x) since it is a logarithmic scale. 7 grains per gallon would be equivalent to 120 ppm CaCO3.

ChrisJ

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1890194#Comment_1890194

What if it's not calcium?

Captain Who

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1890202#Comment_1890202

Google is your friend.

Total hardness is calculated by summing the contributions of each ion after converting them to CaCO3 equivalents. For example:

• 1 mg/L of Ca²⁺ (atomic weight 40) equates to (100/40) = 2.5 mg/L CaCO3.
• 1 mg/L of Mg²⁺ (atomic weight 24) equates to (100/24) ≈ 4.17 mg/L CaCO3.
• The total is then reported as ppm (mg/L) or grains per gallon (gpg), where 1 gpg = 17.1 ppm CaCO3.

ChrisJ

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1890206#Comment_1890206

What if I prefer HotBot or Mamma? Alta Vista?

JaymeHart

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1890191#Comment_1890191

no, inside of pipes. i did have to disassemble a repipe the hot water loop. the plumbers didnt do it correctly (aka no bypass/mixer valve loop). and when i opened the pipe at the top of the boiler to put in the 8 way, lots of rust coating in it already.