does this near boiler piping look right?

haro1 · February 16

Thanks @mattmia2 and @EBEBRATT-Ed for your help with my question last month about moving a steam riser! The job's done, everything is working great, true to form I was more worried than I needed to be.

On that note, I've been looking at the near boiler piping and struggling to match it up with the diagrams I find online and in Dan's book. In particular, the pipe I've marked A in one of the photos below seems to be just above the boiler water level. The plumber who moved the pipe and cleaned the boiler noted that it looked unusual, but didn't comment beyond that.

Is this a functional Hartford Loop? Should I be concerned? For reference this is a Weil McLain EG/PEG-45 natural gas boiler. The previous owner had it installed when he converted from an oil-fired boiler 12 years ago.

EdTheHeaterMan · February 16

Not At all

Did you already pay for this? Then stop payment on that check.

or did this come like this when you purchased the home?

And how do you get in that basement with the steps removed anyway? 🤣🤣🤣🤣

EBEBRATT-Ed · February 16

No doubt you're struggling to match that to a drawing because it's all wrong. We see boiler all the time that are piped wrong but defy the odds and work fine.

If everything is heating ok and there is no banging don't touch it.

haro1 · February 16

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1888169#Comment_1888169

I bought the house a couple months ago — piping must have been like this for at least the 12 years on this boiler, if not longer. I'm trying as fast as I can to fix up various scars that previous owners left. Including the mising staircase 🤣 Some genius just… cut it right out, along with a bunch of structural support for the center of the house. Don't ask me about the missing joists under the bathroom floor we just opened up.

EdTheHeaterMan · February 16

I see now from your other post that you just purchased that home. I agree with the other Ed, If it ain't broke Don't fix it

haro1 · February 16

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1888174#Comment_1888174

Thanks! The heat is working surprisingly well, all things considered, so I'll focus on the million other fixes in this house.

mattmia2 · February 16

that is…creative

EdTheHeaterMan · February 16

Some may SCREAM! that you don't have a Hartford loop. I would not worry about that now because WM has a piping diagram in their I/O manual without a HL

I'm not sure if you have a counterflow system or not, but either way, there is no HL in this diagram.

mattmia2 · February 16

there are more important things missing than the hartford loop especially since there are no wet returns. it may work ok if the water quality is good since it has so much rise in the riser from the boiler. you may have to skim it to get it to behave again after the oil from that new piping finds its way back to the boiler.

ethicalpaul · February 16

maybe I’m imagining it, but I see a Hartford loop and wet return. It’s just down from the silver main vent

EdTheHeaterMan · February 16

Can't see it Paul?!?!

There is a pipe that is hidden behind a pipe that connects to a wet return just below the silver main vent. But no close nipple at some point just below the water line. Just don't see it.

Regardless I stand by my previous statement: If it ain't broke Don't fix it.

mattmia2 · February 16

if you want to call it a wet return. it is really just moving the return connection from where it was on the old boiler to where it is on the new boiler. it has to go below the water line before it connects to the boiler somehow.

ethicalpaul · February 16

end of main/drip: red-orange

Wet return: teal green

Hartford loop: purple

109A_5 · February 16

"A" actually is part of what is basically the equalizer, I agree if it does not hammer leave it alone. If the piping drives you nuts maybe wait to the summer and redo the near boiler piping.

4GenPlumber · February 16

The choice of valves is also quite interesting. Globe valve on the return and a rad valve on the skim port. Rad vent as main vent. I am thoroughly shocked it works without banging. The structural issues you've described...and no lines sagging enough to puddle. Impressive?

haro1 · February 16

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1888186#Comment_1888186

What kind of misbehaving should I look for? Any easy way for me to check if it needs to be skimmed?

haro1 · February 16

It's a small miracle. The main loop is almost completely on one side of the center beam of the house. I think there may have been a wall under it at some point in the past. Most of the support for that beam got cut out and the beam itself got hacked up, so the middle of the house has a nice sag. But the steam main is perfectly graded, and all the risers off of it are pitched steep enough that a little sag wouldn't hurt them. The basement has an unusually high ceiling which helps, plenty of room to get good pitch.

mattmia2 · February 16

water line bouncing or dropping significantly while it is steaming, banging, radiators that don't heat or the system suddenly isn't balanced.

109A_5 · February 16

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1888227#Comment_1888227

Oily substance on top of the water in the sight glass.

does this near boiler piping look right?

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