Boiler water quality

geemalar

Looking for some guidance here on the quality of water I see in my system…….quick background……

Single pipe system, brand new Peerless 63 04L installed Oct 2011. Had some make up water issues that needed addressing. Found one angle valve on my first floor (the closest one about 6 linear feet away from the boiler) that had a significant patch of steam residue at the connection. Replaced that valve, all is well now. Had another angle valve on my second floor that had an ever so slight patch of steam residue on it, replaced that valve as well. Major improvement in almost eliminating the need to add make up water now in the recent temps we have been having here in NJ. Adding in that my system appears to be working flawlessly overall. I plan to tackle some main venting concerns once the heating season is over. I've toyed around with changing some radiator vents to balance out the house……….system hasn't worked this well in the 20 years I've lived here.

The boiler sight glass was constantly having residue showing from top to bottom. I attribute it to a bedroom extension that we did 4 years ago. We had to extend one radiator about 12 feet. My guess is that the pipes they used to move that radiator had oils in them. I've skimmed the boiler 4 times now over the past 2 months. I waited 1-2 weeks between each session so that any oils would make their way down to the water line. Each time, I could see significant amounts of patches of residue on the top of the water as it bled out. Each session would last about an hour until there were no more patches draining out. After skimming, I would let the water drain out the valve at the bottom of the sight glass until it was clear. Removed the sight glass and cleaned it. Reset the water level to it's proper mark by draining out the excess from the drain valve at the bottom of the boiler. Typically at the end of each draining session the last pail of water would come out pretty clean.

Here's my issue/question……after about a week, the sight glass gets dirty again. I can see the water level mark, but the water at the bottom of the glass is dirty (like a light cup of tea color) and the air pocket above the glass has residue all over it.

I just drained the sight glass at it's base of about a quart of water. Water came out absolutely filthy. There was small amount of fine mud / sediment at the bottom of the pail after draining off the liquid. I was planning to remove the sight glass again and clean it again, but I feel now it's just a waste of time.

Sorry to be rambling on but I want to supply as much information as possible. So my question is……….am I in a situation where I need to perform a full system flush (as in making a wand and flushing out the boiler and the return lines). And if that is the case……….am I ok to use the system as is for this season and just wait until springtime.

Any assistance is appreciated……thanks all.

EBEBRATT-Ed

Others will comment but iMHO if the water level is steady (not bouncing over an inch or so) when steaming and the water is only tea colored then I would leave it for now.

If it was me I would boil it out with TSP or washing soda in the spring. 1lb/every 50 gallons of boiler water.

You might check the PH with some PH strips.

geemalar

The water level when boiling is steady……..moves maybe at the absolute most 1/4 of an inch, most times it moves ever so little.

When you say TSP, I take it that's the Hercules TSP………

Thank you

ethicalpaul

No he means the general cleaning product called TSP which often today is available as "TSP Substitute" or "washing soda". It's basically a detergent. The Hercules product also contains the same thing, but it probably costs 4 times as much.

Here is an example but you can find it on the shelf of any big box store:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Sunnyside-6-lb-TSP-Heavy-Duty-Cleaner-in-1-lb-Resalable-Pouches-64216C/203226008

geemalar

Ok thank you for clarifying that. So being a detergent, is this more for any additional oil residue in the system, or will this also help clean out any rust residue.

It's just that over the numerous posts that I see that include photos of boilers, I notice that many have what appear to be very clean sight glasses, regardless of the issue the individuals are having with their steam systems.

I'm just thankful that my system now appears to be functioning as intended, regardless of the clarity of the water in the sight glass and boiler.

ethicalpaul

I have already spoken for @EBEBRATT-Ed so I might as well continue—

The TSP would be to help free up/dissolve any remaining oil so that it can get carried out easier in a skim (or even draining at that point). The rust part drains pretty freely unless it has years to build up and solidify in the bottom of the boiler.

Some of the manufacturers recommend running the boiler for a short time with TSP in it prior to skimming after installation and this is basically performing that step but some years later.

A friend of mine has a boiler that is running well like yours, but it has black water at times and some staining in the gauge glass like you describe. So do some other of my "clients". I think your water situation is very typical…it can be a challenge to get a boiler really clean if it's been some years since installation and the installer didn't clean it well.

At some point during the process, you want to get the pH raised a little with a product like 8-Way. Start with real small doses like 1 cup, and wait to do that until you get the oil out. The reason to get the pH up to 8-10 is because it will reduce the creation of new "brown water" (rust) to almost zero. Then you will find you really never have to drain more than like a quart per year and the water stays crystal clear.

PhilKulkarni

@ethicalpaul I would be more conservative with the 8-Way. My 63-03 is 3 yrs old. When I add 1 cup(what size you ask) i.e 150 CC, the water level in the sight glass plummets to 1.5-1.75” from the bottom. Wet steam? Yes. The pressure goes from 0 to 0.6 psi. Reducing the 8-Way to 60 CC delivers steam to the radiators faster and the water level drops by 2” from the level mark and fluctuates a bit. The pressure barely moves over 0. But the additive does seem to work as I am seeing a moderate decrease in the amount of rust and need to drain a smaller quantity of water than before.

My reason for draining is not because the water in the sight glass is dirty, on the contrary it is mostly clear or light pink due to the 8-Way, it is because my vents get clogged by the fine rust particles and one or more rads stops heating. This is my second season with the 8-Way and I am hopeful the rate of oxidation will abate giving me the opportunity to curl up with a good book this winter.

AdmiralYoda

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1875302#Comment_1875302

The 8-way only works in the boiler. The steam that makes its way to your vents is distilled when it condenses. If rusty water is getting to your radiators and/or vents you have other problems.

I use 8-way and I find 1oz per gallon is the max and 0.5-0.75oz/gallon is ideal. My boiler has a 10 gallon water capacity and I add an 8oz cup worth. Keeps the pH around 10-ish.

When I first started using 8-way it was doing some cleaning and making the boiler water dirty. For the first time ever I got water hammer when the boiler shot a bunch of water up the mains. Now my boiler water is crystal clean.

Whether I put too much or too little in, my water line doesn't bounce any different.

**EDIT and I have a 42 year old Peerless G-461, which got renamed as the 61-04 and eventually the Series 64. Very similar to yours except another section in the boiler.