1938 coal stove to natural gas gravity system.

Benjikittens

Thinking about re setting up my gas boiler system for my radiator. I ran it for around a month when we first bought the house and the heat bill was almost 700. Been heating with gas fireplaces ever since. Would like to try and make it more efficient. I think the first place to start would be the burner. The burner pretty much looks like a blow torch end that shoots at plate to spread out. Would u have any recommendations on if possible to upgrade this system to start

Jamie Hall

Eh? I think we need some pictures of this setup, and the make and model of the coal stove (?) which you are trying to make into a boiler?

Benjikittens

Yeah I figured that after I post lol. I can get some when I get home tonight

leonz

Do you have an AVCO LYCOMING boiler?

Benjikittens

Steamhead

That's a typical form of gas conversion burner. Your boiler was originally coal-fired. It has large flue passageways that let a lot of heat go up the chimney.

Where are you located? We might know someone who can help………………

Benjikittens

BBeckley Wv. I have someone offering me this could I use it to replace it

mattmia2

someone has put a modern combination gas valve on it.

Benjikittens

Would i be ahead to get whole new unit or doctor this one. I have2 natural gas fire places so this would be mostly heat for the bed rooms

mattmia2

it depends on what it costs to run it and how long you're going to own it. It will cost a lot to replace it, but the changes you make to it would only increase its efficiency somewhat. Is it hot water or steam? Does the "gravity" in the title mean it is gravity hot water? If it is hot water you can likely increase the efficiency by a lot although improving the energy efficiency of the structure would go a lot further to reducing fuel use than replacing the boiler. the cost of the boiler itself will almost be negligible in the total replacement cost, especially if a lot of it is covered in asbestos.

Bob Harper

I can think of many reasons to replace this relic. What reasons do you have to place it back into service that trump safety and efficiency?

Benjikittens

Im pretty sure its water because when I bleed them its just water that come out. How could I increase to water efficiently. And how would I reduce the fuel use

leonz

Is consol back to actively mining in Beckley? Are the DOSCO and Long Airdox companies still there?

You have an Ideal Red Flash boiler that used rocking coal grates, one of Mr. Holohans favorite boilers! They burned Bituminous coal in it to heat the home.

As Mr. Holohan is fond of saying, "if all you get is water it aint an air problem".

It is a hard pass on that Trane unit period as you have no idea what shape it is in.

How many floors and how many radiators?

If it is a true gravity fed system is it a top fed gravity hot water heating system with one riser and an open to air expansion tank in the attic or a bottom fed gravity system with two risers and an open to air expansion tank in the attic?

Please measure the ALL the radiators so we can figure out what the total amount of radiation/emitters you have.

Benjikittens

I have 1 86in 3 that are 48, 3 that 36 and 1 that is 13. So 8 in total and its 2 story with 4 upstairs

leonz

We need the width of the radiators and the height and the number tubes, I am sorry, I should have been more clear about the need to measure them.

Steamhead

@Benjikittens , also post some radiator pics.

Benjikittens

11in wide 18in tall

And they are 4 tubs off the boiler around 2 in

leonz

Would you be so kind as to post more pictures of your boiler and the risers and return piping hung in the ceiling joists with better lighting? Doing this will help us to help you a great deal.

Benjikittens

neilc

clear the crap off the top of that boiler, and anything along side it also,

Benjikittens

Considering it hasn't been used in 5 years I think im good till I get it up and running

Benjikittens

Just wondering anyone has any advice

Grallert

I would think you'd be more comfortable using that boiler and likely use less fuel to boot. Assuming you can get a modern conversion burner and tighten up the combustion chamber. Also slowing down the combustion gas trough the boiler. Folks used to put bricks in the passages. All this needs to be done by a professional. As mentioned above it's more important to keep the heat in the home. Stop the drafts.

Benjikittens

TThat Sounds good ill do that. On new burn whats the usual saving per month on that for natural gas cost. Will my fire places mess with heat due to raising the room temp

leonz

You have a great deal of thermal mass in your existing boiler and your radiators. A gravity hot water heating system is very simple to own and operate because it depends strictly on convection. A new conversion gas burner will help with reducing your natural gas consumption.

Your installer should make sure that the door gaskets for this redflash boiler are replaced to assure that the doors close tight and do not leak carbon monoxide.

You have a compression tank hanging between ceiling joists in your basement which is used to create the point of no pressure change.

The clamp on thermocouple-the black box in pictures 5 and 7 is what controls the boilers temperature for you and it will operate the gas burner for you turning the gas burner on and off as needed to heat your home. The wiring to the thermocouple and gas burner needs to be replaced as it appears to be cloth/woven and needs to be replaced.

Do you have a round thermostat on the wall in the room above the boiler?

It appears to me that they completely removed the ash pit door and cemented in a replacement metal plate to mount the conversion gas burner in your boiler.

Please provide us with more images of the steel compression tank hanging in the ceiling joists above your boiler as we/I need to know if there are any valves at the opposite end of the steel compression tank to help you further.

Eastman

@Benjikittens

Ben, you say you've been heating the place with gas fire places? How much does it cost to heat the place in this manner?

Benjikittens

Ive had a few mo it's his in the mid to high 300s.but usually in 200s

Eastman

What are these fireplaces like? Do you have a picture?

Benjikittens

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TThe Ither on is its own housing with a blower

Grallert

Those fire places are nice to look at and make reasonable space heaters at pretty high cost. The repair of your boiler wont be inexpensive but once it is complete I think you'll find it is less expensive to operate and far more comfortable. Again the cost of warming your house depends to a great deal how much of that comfortable heat you can keep in the house. And in the spaces you wish to heat. A gravity hot water system is very "adjustable" assuming the radiator valve are functional meaning you can open and close them to adjust the amount of heat you want in each space where there is a radiator.

More and detailed pictures would give folks here a better idea of what you have to work with.

Eastman

@Benjikittens

The fuel cost to run those fireplaces gives a very rough idea of what can be achieved. To get a better idea, you would need to estimate how much heat is lost from the house over the course of the season. There are various online tools to help a home owner do this.

A couple other things to note. A gravity coal system is optimized to burn coal. At the end of the day only so much can be done. Heat is lost up the chimney and also into the basement from the boiler and piping. Certainly all the piping in the basement should be well insulated if you want to keep the system pretty much as is.

I would look into the practicality of adding thermostatic regulator valves on some of the radiators, or zoning the first floor separately from the upstairs bedrooms. If you have the gas fireplaces going the room will overheat unless the radiators are somehow throttled back. This can typically be done manually, or by zoning, or by thermostatic regulator valves. The options are somewhat dependent on how things are piped.

Benjikittens

II Was wondering also before install the 2 removed radiator could I do it without reinstalling them as long as the shut off valve is off

Eastman

What?

Benjikittens

So with boiler fully up and running it took the half foot daily. 20 sec to do a full rotation. With the fire places it took 25sec. Thats with the gas turn down to lowest on the boiler. With that said with the fire places having to run constantly and the boiler running off and on to heat the water what would be the cheaper option in everyone's opinion. I don't care to run both if thats an option also