What To Look For When Replacing a Natural Gas Boiler

MikeySW

Gentlemen,

I know this question has been asked a million times, but I figure as time goes on it can't hurt to see what's new in the marketplace and who the more reliable brands and manufacturers are. I have a Munchkin natural gas boiler (I have attached some label pics to hopefully give as much specification information as possible) that is coming up on 20 years of service. I have not had any issues with the boiler function directly (I have been told I may need a new blower motor because this one does not 'spool down' correctly when it shuts off…whatever that means?), and any service I have had is related to manifolds, zone controllers, etc.

How long can a boiler like this last?

My biggest issue is that I have little to no support where I live (SW Idaho) regarding radiant systems and boilers in general. Very surprising for this area. I have found one geothermal company that seems to have a tech who knows his way around radiant heating systems, but not so sure on the boiler/plumber side of things.

So, I'm thinking of purchasing a boiler on my own for preparation of replacement some day may be prudent? I don't think they will get cheaper as time goes by, but my problem is finding someone competent to install the new unit. Is there any disadvantages to this pre-install purchase? Warranty maybe based on time of purchase, not install? Part of my thought process is to eventually do the install proactively in the summer instead of having the panicked and expensive process of the boiler dying in the middle of winter in the single digits outside.

Can you folks give recommendations as to what manufacturers I should look at for this replacement? My thought is that maybe they will have a 'dealer' or installer list perhaps just outside my area who I could pay to come in and do the job? What manufacturers have a longstanding reputation for quality units? How about their support during install or other issues down the road? I live in a mountain water area (high mineral content, high iron) so that may be a consideration when selecting a unit. Any advice and guidance is greatly appreciated.

Here are some pics. I did talk to someone who said this unit was for HA (high altitude) use and also LP (liquid propane). I was told that regional suppliers in this area would purchase units in this format and then convert units as needed upon installation requirements. I am at 3,000 feet so not high altitude, and I have natural gas to my house, not propane.

Thank you.

EBEBRATT-Ed

20 years is good. Probably would last longer but I hear parts are a little scarce.

Lochinvar, HTP, Viessman (maybe the best but $$$$)

others will comment. Stay away from Navien.

HVACNUT

Make sure a qualified installer will be willing to install a boiler purchased by the homeowner. Especially if its going to be sitting around for a few years.

Can you show the boiler piping? If its just a boiler swap, it shouldn't be difficult to adapt to the existing piping.. It being radiant has nothing to do with it.

Ironman

I don’t know of any reliable contractor (myself included) that would install a boiler supplied by the home owner. It’s a recipe for disaster.

Concentrate on finding a competent contractor and go with what he’s proposing.

You might try contacting the manufacturers or their reps of the brands that Ed mentioned and see if they can recommend a contractor or start a new thread titled “Looking for a Hydronic Contractor near …”.

MikeySW

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1873084#Comment_1873084

Sure thing. I have attached some pics of the maintenance room. I would think a new wall mounted unit up on the wall to the right of the Munchkin on the floor as it sits would be a better location. So yes, lots of new piping and new venting.

MikeySW

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1873101#Comment_1873101

Bob,

I agree and this is not the way I would want to do things. I have, in earnest, looked for 6 years for a contractor that does this kind of work. I know it sounds improbable, but I have not been able to locate anyone that seems competent on a consistent basis. I did find one company that had a great tech who really knew his stuff. He was a plumber and HVAC type person and it was great. Called one day to schedule a service call and out of the blue they decided that as a company they would no longer service boilers or do hydronic work. Fantastic.

The current company I found specializes in geothermal radiant systems, and there is one tech that seems okay, although I have definitely had times where I was not comfortable with his logic/steps to fix a problem. I'm not tradesmen so maybe that's just my paranoia, but I can usually read people fairly well.

I did ask this company about upgrading and they did send a quote over. I can't remember the boiler manufacturer they went with on the quote, but when I started asking follow up questions to what they bid it was clear that the author of this quote did not know any more than I did and that's not much. I just wasn't comfortable spending tens of thousands of dollars (yes, that much) when it was apparent this was something outside of their comfort zone.

Alan (California Radiant) Forbes

Take a look at IBC boilers, specifically their SL model. It has left or right side connections which can make Munchkin replacements easier.

In my area, Viessmann boilers are competitively priced. It's the Lochinvar's that are $$$$$.

Kaos

One thing you can try is to drop by your local hvac supply company and ask them who buys a lot of modcons. This will at least get you the contact who does this type of work.

When looking at a new unit, make sure to check what size you actually need, simplest is fuel use calculation. Very few houses out there that need a 199k boiler.

hot_rod

I can ask around for contractors in SW Idaho. Our Idaho Caleffi rep is a born and raised Idaho gal located near Idaho Falls.

She was a Ferguson branch manager for years, she will know the players in the area.

I know some of the big hydronic knowledgable shops are opening remote branches around the west. Usually around money, resort towns :)

Let me know or PM me the town you are near.

A small wall hung would clean up that room.

MikeySW

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1873125#Comment_1873125

So how do I do that? Just look at my natural gas bills over time?

Thanks for the idea about the supply houses. I hadn't thought of that.

MikeySW

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1873127#Comment_1873127

Bob,

A wall hung unit would make that room a grand hall! Okay, Idaho Falls (Magic Valley, Sun Valley Ski area) is 2.5 hours away from where I am (I'm 10 miles north of Boise) and if memory serves they do have more contractors in that area, but they don't service me. That's the problem. When people think of Idaho they think of cold and lots of snow and boilers and radiant heat is great. I'm in the one part of the state where that's not true (SW Treasure Valley, high desert valley..gets cold but not like other areas of the state).

It would be great if you could ask your contact if she knows anybody in the Treasure Valley that does this work. Thank you so much for the offer!

Michael

Kaos

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1873157#Comment_1873157

Rough number in cold climate is winter time fuel use in Therms x 42. For exact number run through the math here:

https://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/article/replacing-a-furnace-or-boiler