New tank, single top line, do i need a shutoff?

clevzrd

I was hoping you could help me. I live in Pennsylvania, USA. My 275gal oil tank is outdoors and has 1 single top draw line. There is nothing else attached to it, just one line going in. The tank appears to have had a return line, but at some point many many yrs ago was cut off. Tank sits about 2ft lower than burner and the line runs from the outside of the house, through 30ft of crawl space then into the burner on the main floor. The old tank is shot. I ordered a new tank. I want to keep it top draw and single line. Id also like to put a shut off valve on the bottom(just how older tanks had a sludge valve). So far I have a firomatic 12840, 3/8", westwood filter, beckett kit, and ordered 3/8" 4 tap duplex bushing, 2' copper pipe to go in the tank, compression brass coupler, 3/8" plug and Rectorseal (per ur recommendation)

For the top line, do i need a shutoff valve or anything else for safety? Would i use a standard shutoff valve to connect to the bottom as a sludge drain/clean out valve?

Please help, ive been looking for answers and searching for parts for about 3 weeks.. this was/is no easy task.

HydronicMike

By code an outdoor tank is allowed to have a ball valve outside.
When the oil line enter the house, you are then required to a thermally fused valve, then another by the burner.

If it’s a gravity job, if feasible, I’d probably go right as the oil line enters the house, firomatic, oil filter(s), OSV, then firomatic at burner.

I wouldn’t put a ball valve at the bottom of an outdoor tank. Water will collect there, could freeze, and blow out/crack, and dump the full contents of the tank.

Any reason why you aren’t using a Roth tank?

ratio

I don't think compression fittings are allowed, either.

clevzrd

Welp.. i do not have an oil burner. I've got a Nordyne counterflow gas or oil furnace cmf2 80 pg . It was installed during closing and has a beckett pump attached inside the case. There isnt much room for a firomatic in the furnace case but i can probably work it in lower on the line. Theres about a total of 14inches before the pipe goes into the abyss under my floor.(scary down there.. i peeked)

Thank you for telling me the order they go in. I was having a very difficult time finding a diagram. And i forgot to order the safety valve, thank you!!!

I would absolutely love love love a roth!!. but i live in the sticks, my car is a spark and homedepot delivered this $950 tank for $55. I found some 265 gallon roths for 1200 but delivery is $500 -900.

So if i use a plug at the bottom of the tank, i could still use it as a clean out without the risk of frozen water cracking it?

leonz

Why are you against have a 2 pipe system with the return oil pipe at the top in the dual tapping?

clevzrd

Ii was going to use the couplers to hold the 24" pipe going into the tank from the bushing. I thought id need something more sturdy than the standard 3/8 copper tubing or is tube fine to use?

Im hoping to save up and buy a minisplit next yr and use the furance as a back up(i despise the floor vents, food, dirt and unknowns faling through the slats, then breathingall the ick)

-As for not having a return line, im trying to keep it simple and i really really really don't want to go under the house. i peeked under there and the insulation is falling down and its dark and mucky and theres bugs and webs and yes im a girl, i didnt mind the 3+ months in 90°s repairing the roof, or re piping the shower tub or hand digging 75 holes & installing the fencing or any of the 100s of small ucky things ive fixed since miving here but going under the house is something id like to avoid..plus i dont have any help, what if i get attacked and eaten by some unknown creature..no one will find me!!

HydronicMike

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1860997#Comment_1860997

Horrible idea running a return line at all, and especially to an outside tank.

Big Ed_4

The tank should sit on a concrete pad , The moisture from the bare ground will rot out the bottom of the tank. Leaves that collect under the tank will do the same. You want to protect the outside from rusting . Rustoleum any scratches that end up in the paint .

Use the bottom tap rather then the top .. Top feed tanks will collect water below the dip tube . The layer between oil and water an algae will grow . The algae feeds off the oil and poops out "Sluge" . The kicker is the algae can't digest the sulfur in the oil and the sludge is a sulfuric acid in base . Probably the reason for the new tank…..The Roth tank has a plastic liner to protect the steel . The Roth will build up sludge too . You have to keep a Roth tank treated to prevent oil flow problems..

Pitch the tank 1/4" down to the valve to drain off any collected water in the tank . Go to HomeDepot and have them cut and thread two sets of 1.25" nipples for the legs with a 1" difference to achieve the 1/4" pitch . And while you are on that isle pick up 4 x1.25" flanges for the legs foot… You say your tank sits 2' lower than the burner ? Now is time to bring up the oil level …

Replace the oil line…. Run a new contained oil line . Copper tubing with a plastic cover. This is a must have for the crawl space oil line run. Trust me on this one , every oil guy here would have stories ..

A fireomatic is required for parts with gaskets like filters, pumps and tiger loops …

As stated above , run the oil line with downward pitch into the house. Any water with the pitch of the tank and the oil line will end up down stream inside the house past the freeze zone ..Inside add the fireomatic valve and service filter ..

New tank new oil…

Hope this helps

HVACNUT

Bottom feed. @clevzrd said the tank is 2 ft. below the burner. The top or bottom of the tank we dont know. Even if measured from the top, that's a 2 ft. lift with a full tank, 6 ft. lift when near empty. It won't be a problem if done correctly. Where is the oil line entrance to the structure in relation to the tank?

clevzrd

Wow!! Thank you!! I believe the tank is from 1996, probably the line too and its definitely not coated.

I really really didnt want to spend 4 hrs driving back n forth to lowes for 20 bags of concrete mix. I leveled the gound, layed diwn a tarp and placed large pavers on tops. I guess i could set the pavers..Would that be a viable option? 1-2 inch pad to set the pavers. My car holds 661lbs. 10 50lb bags + me and the stuff i need in there will be the limit.

EBEBRATT-Ed

Whatever you do realize that th tank when full will weigh about 2000 pounds. That is 1 ton. You don't want it to tumble over.

Concrete pad is the way to go. I would not use pavers.

If you don't want a pad use solid 8x8x16 cement blocks. Only use solid ones.

clevzrd

I didnt consider a tipping hazzard!!.i feel so dumb for not seeing it. You probably just saved a life!!! if one of those pavers holding a leg support were to crack, anything nearby would be crushed. Me looking for a simpler way could of had dire consequences;Thank you so so so so so much!!!

leonz

A 285 gallon Highland Petro Hopper is a steel tank within a tub to top tapping's in the lid and it has 2 pieces of channel iron welded to bottom of the outer tank for tank supports and it can be simply set on the ground.

Above ground tanks use 2 pipe systems and as long as you treat the fuel with Diesel 9-1-1 or HEET it will keep the oil in good condition.

highland petrohopper 00285PH.PDF