Peerless

AJCimino

Looking through the Peerless web site, I stumbled upon this. I'll leave the interpretation of what this means to all of you who read and post on this site.

TT8131-R3-_63-x-IOM-Manual_web0225.pdf

delcrossv

...and your point is?

AJCimino

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1845594#Comment_1845594

Is that if you were little observant, you would see that it is a Burnham Steam Max rebranded as a Peerless 63 series. Didn't think I would have to spell it out. So my point is what does this portend for Peerless? Is my point clear now?

ethicalpaul

There's no need to be so aggro, and yes your point is now clearer.

I see both the old 63 and 64 lines on their website, in addition to this new 63-x model. I'm not familiar enough with the Steam Max to be able to say myself that's what it is, but I don't doubt you.

They could might have chosen to license it to rebrand it so they could have a higher-efficiency steam model? Scratch that, the efficiency is only 82.0%

It would be cool if there were a press release announcement, but they are a strange company in some ways, even though they make my favorite steam boiler. The internet is completely silent regarding the Peerless 63-x

STEAM DOCTOR

Where did you find this? Not showing on Peerless website

ethicalpaul

Go down to "Product Documents" on this page:

https://www.peerlessboilers.com/products/series-63/

You can tell this isn't a Peerless-written I&O manual because it shows a drop header option 😅

Long Beach Ed

Why not give Peerless or their distributor a call?

STEAM DOCTOR

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1845605#Comment_1845605

My bad. Not showing the 63-X in the product list. But if you go to the documents for the 63, thet have the standard I&M manual for the 63 and separate manual for the 63-X. Very peculiar indeed

ethicalpaul

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1845617#Comment_1845617

Because they won't take calls from me 😅

Peerless only offers 4 sizes: 100, 150, 200, 250 MBTU input instead of 13 sizes from Burnham.

Good job editing, Peerless graphic artists!

EBEBRATT-Ed

That will be the end of Peerless.

STEAM DOCTOR

2" tappings supply tappings😠😠😠😠😠😠

STEAM DOCTOR

Removing the pins from the top makes the boiler considerably less efficient. That's why they need to add those baffles, to get some minimum efficiency levels. Not a big fan of baffles. Carbonized boiler waiting to happen. Obviously won't happen under ideal conditions, but under less ideal conditions, baffles can exacerbate things.

ethicalpaul

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1845643#Comment_1845643

I'm by no means arguing against you, but why do you think so?

Are you thinking they are going down this road in order to some day eliminate their 63/64 line? Maybe they are just testing to see if these units sell.

But let's assume they are exiting the steam business. Is it even that important in their revenue mix? We know it's ever-declining year after year as an overall market. It could be a very good business decision to eliminate a lot of costs around manufacturing their own steam boilers vs re-branding Burnham, no?

STEAM DOCTOR

Only offering four sizes between 100 and 250????? Don't sound like good marketing to me

ethicalpaul

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1845651#Comment_1845651

It could just be a test to see if their dealers, distributors and installers will go for it

STEAM DOCTOR

If you need a 75,125, 175.... you might consider looking elsewhere.

ethicalpaul

Yeah like the Steam-Max 😅, which is a good idea anyway for price comparison's sake alone.

AJCimino

Little update on this: Apparently Peerless will still offer the 63 (88.5 to287.5 MBH) series steam boiler, but only in a knockdown version. This is because they say they don't have the personnel to do the assembly. Originally the 64 (345 to 632.5 MBH) series was not going away, and since the sections are the same in the 63 and 64, they decided to continue offering the 63. Latest I heard, from a wholesaler for whatever its worth.

STEAM DOCTOR

Good to hear. Fwiw, most boilers that I install, need the jacket... removed to facilitate getting the boiler down the stairs. So knock down is actually very beneficial.

clammy

Peerless is done foundring there boiler blocks and i believe its been quite some time since there own foundries have been operational (covid shut down ), they will all be just rebranded Burnham after all the knock down are gone . As i start to slide out of the business i can only say w all certainty that if your buy a home w steam might as well beat the race and yank it put in some nice panel rads size for as low a temp as financially possible as within reason and be done it and this way when faced w electronficion of everything you will be able to have a air to water heat pump or electric boiler installed possibly $ . .As for sooner or late steam boilers except for garbage will be available and soon or later there will be less and less guys who actually cut and thread piping they will be just pressing ( more throw away ) . And there will be even less people in the residential side doing steam boiler correctly nor have any real clue as to problem solving aside from not installing correctly . Chain that together w the rising prices of radiator and main vents at least decent vents and that fact that as much as everyone thinks they should last 10 or 20 years which they don't in most cases makes it a even harder sale . swoosh that together w utility financing over 5 years or so puts 1 guy shop outta business or retirement .

As things are just gotta wonder in 5 years whos really gonna be left standing manufacturing wise being there either closing doors or getting brought out and shut down remember those member berries .Slantfin,ward next peerless and next ?

I got zero issues w sliding into obscurity and obsoletion but thats just fine and dandy w me .I ve really had more then enough in 42 years of the business and truthfully just need more F U money to pay bills and retire bout the same but in this economy its all hazy. Plus everybody likes bs over the truth and there's plenty of shovel ready jobs to move that bs lol .clammy

EBEBRATT-Ed

Slant Finn, gone Peerless??? and Smith is almost gone (they only make the #19 and the #28 now). So, who is left?

Burnham, YUK, ECR (Utica Dunkirk) and Weil McLain

Still a lot of steam around. I guess the market will settle down to a lower level.

STEAM DOCTOR

There seems to be some conflicting information over here. Are they still manufacturing the 63 series? Are they just getting their old 63 sections off the shelf and then they will be gone forever?? Anyone have an in with peerless, that can confirm one way or another?

dandub1960

Definitely a Steam Max with those riser take-offs on the inside sections.

ScottSecor

I am pretty sure Peerless and Smith (HB Smith for us older people) have also partnered for their commercial cast iron boilers. The Smith 28 series and the Peerless TC are the same boiler, this has been the case for at least ten years. I believe the Smith 19 series is the same boiler as the Peerless CC boilers.

EBEBRATT-Ed

Smith was once a big piece of the CI boiler market. Now they only sell the 28 & 19. Sad. Their stuff wasn't always the best but the quality was good. No flimsy jackets like some of the others.. They were only 10 miles from me. Up until the 80-90s they had this whole market. 90% of the CI boiler around here in the old days were Smith.