Near boiler piping
Comments
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Slow condensate return doesn't have much to do with venting. Not enough pitch or a clog is more likely.
Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.0 -
the water level isn’t going down due to condensate not returning
and Vents don’t affect that regardless.
Here’s what’s happening:
NJ Steam Homeowner.
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I thought according to Dan, that that was normal per his video with the glass piped boiler.
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yet another reason why that video isn’t great.
No, that is not at all normal. They do that to make a show. Actual steam production is very boring
See my other videos. No water gets out of the boiler with the steam unless the water is garbage, even with bad piping
NJ Steam Homeowner.
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The water is pretty clean. The glass is just stained at the bottom. When the water comes up above the dark color on the bottom of the glass, it's clean.
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Any recommendations on how long to wait between skimming?
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in my opinion, if you see surging, you are late to skim.
The reason I say that is because surging will distribute oils through your header and main (assuming that oils are the issue)
NJ Steam Homeowner.
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The oils will make it's way back to the boiler where they can be skimmed though right? The water level has become more stable over time. It may be moved an inch overall. A 1/2" above and below the water line.
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Last night you posted that the water level was dropping low enough to trigger the LWCO so I admit I'm a little confused as to what exactly the current situation is.
Yes the oils will definitely make their way back to the boiler, but remember, as that happens they will accumulate enough that surging will happen again. That's what I mean by if you wait for surging to happen again, you are letting the oils get moved to where skimming won't touch them
NJ Steam Homeowner.
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So I should skim as often as possible?
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As often as possible would be every hour on the hour so no, I think that would be too often. You have to kind of judge it based on if there's any gunk coming out.
Like if it were mine I would skim it and see if any gunk came out. If some gunk/sheen came out with the water I would skim it again in a couple days.
You have to carefully watch during the beginning part of the skim to see if anything is coming out. A tee with the bullhead part facing upwards makes a good display port to view the stuff floating out.
NJ Steam Homeowner.
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So I drained, filled, skimmed, drained, filled, skimmed etc. This time I blasted the water into the main that gets the steam and condensate return lines to it and a ton of silt/mud started coming out. Getting ready to start it back up. Stay tuned. Lol
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OK cool but don't drain before you skim. It's good to skim with warm/hot water and you have to drain anyway after a skim to get the water level correct.
NJ Steam Homeowner.
Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el0 -
Sorry. I wrote that wrong. Lol. I did skim it with the water that was in there first. Scouts honor. I can't believe the amount of garbage that came out when I blasted it with water
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So it's been running for about 15 minutes, and in that time I've noticed big air bubbles at times coming in from the bottom of the sight glass. Plus I've lost about 25% of the water level I started with. The steam return line by the air vent is 160° and the condensate return is room temp
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So after another 20 minutes, the level is down another 25% or so. The condensate return air vent is still hissing. I tapped on it and within a couple minutes the piping going back to the boiler started heating up. I can still hear it whistling along with the steam return air vent. The gorton air vents are coming tomorrow, so we'll see what happens when I put those in. Oddly enough, now the low water cutoff isn't flashing like it's ready to trip the boiler. I've sat here and watched it enough, that I know where the water level will set the light off on the low water cutoff and it's below that level with no flashing light.
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When the boiler is boiling, water can splash up and make the probe think there is water at that level. The probe can't think of course, but you know what I mean.
If your water level is dropping steadily like that over a long call for heat, that indicates your wet return is clogged. And wet returns don't clog like a toilet really, they fill up with nodules of corrosion like polyps on the inside of the pipe. The clogged area has to be replaced typically.
It's not the vent's fault, get that out of your head. The vent cannot prevent condensate from returning.
NJ Steam Homeowner.
Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el
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So if I took the air vent out of the condensate return line and plugged it, condensate would still flow back to the boiler?
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Yes it would.
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In fact, many people come here with their "main vent" (that's the name of the vent you are describing) having been removed and the port plugged years prior, including me about 7 years ago. You can see the discussion if you go to my profile.
Water flows without any connection to atmosphere. It will flow when all the vents in the whole system are closed due to steam. It will flow when the steam stops and the system goes into vacuum.
There are apparently some systems that were made that had all kinds of strange traps, seals, etc where condensate could be affected by vacuum, but they are very rare.
NJ Steam Homeowner.
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See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el0 -
How would I go about finding where it is clogged? Eventually last night the condensate return piping at the boiler got to roughly 130°. When I got up this morning and checked the glass, the boiler was off, and the level was right back to where I had it when I finished skimming and started it back up last night.
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if it was me, once I was pretty sure the wet return was actually slow, I’d replace the whole thing with copper.
How long is it and how big is your boiler? 1” might be big enough—condensate is not much volume.
NJ Steam Homeowner.
Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el0 -
I believe it is 1" or 1 1/4" for the condensate return. I'll check when I get home. Thanks for the insight. Much appreciated
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The existing size may not be related to the size it needs to be
NJ Steam Homeowner.
Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el0 -
I understand that. Kinda like the NBP on it ....
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Ok, so I've made some progress thanks to the help of Chris who guys by offdutytech on the forums. I've learned more from him and made more progress just talking with him than all 3 of the other so called professionals that came to my house combined. If you're in the metro Detroit and maybe beyond area, I would highly suggest contacting him. Super professional and very knowledgeable.
So, Chris identified my system as a Mouant vapor system. Currently, 2 of the radiator water seals are blowing through steam into the condensate return line. I will be addressing that with orifice plates as soon as a I can.
I will be replacing the pressurtrol with a Honeywell vaporstat L408J 1009. Currently setting up to do the swap as we speak.
My question is, the current pressurtrol has a brown and red wire. Am I to assume that those wires transfer to the vapor stat on the 'R' and 'B' terminals?
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Yes, breaks R & B on pressure rise.
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Ok. I have the main at 3oz. and the diff at 2oz. The pressure gets up to 1 psi on the boiler, and it still won't trip the boiler. Even if I put the main down to 0oz. ILit still won't trip the boiler.
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If one pound of pressure won't trip the control set at 2 oz, it's not working properly. Test it and adjust it as we discussed on your other thread or exchange it for one that works if you can't.
These things are made in Mexico and many of them don't work out of the box.
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I guess I'm not understanding how to adjust it. I don't see a panel on the back that would be held with a screw.
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Take one wire off the Vstat, then with a call for heat at the thermostat, does the boiler fire? It should not. If it does you have a wiring issue that needs attention.
known to beat dead horses0 -
Just took the red wire off and turned the thermostat up to call for heat. The boiler would not start
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ok, so it's wired correctly, good,
the calibration screw, follow the line of your pigtail up into the inside of the Vstat case, above the pigtail, will be a small, ~1/8", diameter pin, pushing up on a silver metal lever, and right there on the lever, aligned with the pigtail line, will be the small calibration screw, with a dab of locktite or securing paste/paint, it is either a small flat head screw, or small allen screw, turn it in, clockwise, small 1/8 turn adjustments, and watch a cycle or 2 before adjusting further, or backing off,
known to beat dead horses0 -
I see a pin that is holding up 2 lever arms, and it's triangular, but I don't see any type of adjustment screw in there.
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picture ?
known to beat dead horses0 -
not a pivot pin, but a stem up from the diaphram under the case, and above the pigtail
known to beat dead horses0 -
So this is gonna sound dumb. Does the vstat have to be off the pigtail to do this?
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Ok. I found the adjustment screw. If I open this up and make adjustments to it and it doesn't fix it, I have a feeling I won't be able to send it back.
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can you post a picture of the settings of your Vtrol, and of what you see inside as the adjustment,
wanna make sure we're seeing the same things,
and if that Vtrol is installed, I doubt they take it back anyways
known to beat dead horses0 -
I did eventually get it working. It's cutting out at about 4 oz and back in at about 1 oz.
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