Near boiler piping

delcrossv

Slow condensate return doesn't have much to do with venting. Not enough pitch or a clog is more likely.

ethicalpaul

the water level isn’t going down due to condensate not returning

and Vents don’t affect that regardless.

Here’s what’s happening:

https://youtu.be/WSRvvNQ5WLc?si=xvWi7GJguktZQzPr

KJB

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1844767#Comment_1844767

I thought according to Dan, that that was normal per his video with the glass piped boiler.

ethicalpaul

yet another reason why that video isn’t great.

No, that is not at all normal. They do that to make a show. Actual steam production is very boring

See my other videos. No water gets out of the boiler with the steam unless the water is garbage, even with bad piping

KJB

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1844775#Comment_1844775

The water is pretty clean. The glass is just stained at the bottom. When the water comes up above the dark color on the bottom of the glass, it's clean.

KJB

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1844779#Comment_1844779

Any recommendations on how long to wait between skimming?

ethicalpaul

in my opinion, if you see surging, you are late to skim.

The reason I say that is because surging will distribute oils through your header and main (assuming that oils are the issue)

KJB

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1844784#Comment_1844784

The oils will make it's way back to the boiler where they can be skimmed though right? The water level has become more stable over time. It may be moved an inch overall. A 1/2" above and below the water line.

ethicalpaul

Last night you posted that the water level was dropping low enough to trigger the LWCO so I admit I'm a little confused as to what exactly the current situation is.

Yes the oils will definitely make their way back to the boiler, but remember, as that happens they will accumulate enough that surging will happen again. That's what I mean by if you wait for surging to happen again, you are letting the oils get moved to where skimming won't touch them

KJB

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1844803#Comment_1844803

So I should skim as often as possible?

ethicalpaul

As often as possible would be every hour on the hour so no, I think that would be too often. You have to kind of judge it based on if there's any gunk coming out.

Like if it were mine I would skim it and see if any gunk came out. If some gunk/sheen came out with the water I would skim it again in a couple days.

You have to carefully watch during the beginning part of the skim to see if anything is coming out. A tee with the bullhead part facing upwards makes a good display port to view the stuff floating out.

KJB

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1844825#Comment_1844825

So I drained, filled, skimmed, drained, filled, skimmed etc. This time I blasted the water into the main that gets the steam and condensate return lines to it and a ton of silt/mud started coming out. Getting ready to start it back up. Stay tuned. Lol

ethicalpaul

OK cool but don't drain before you skim. It's good to skim with warm/hot water and you have to drain anyway after a skim to get the water level correct.

KJB

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1844855#Comment_1844855

Sorry. I wrote that wrong. Lol. I did skim it with the water that was in there first. Scouts honor. I can't believe the amount of garbage that came out when I blasted it with water

KJB

So it's been running for about 15 minutes, and in that time I've noticed big air bubbles at times coming in from the bottom of the sight glass. Plus I've lost about 25% of the water level I started with. The steam return line by the air vent is 160° and the condensate return is room temp

KJB

So after another 20 minutes, the level is down another 25% or so. The condensate return air vent is still hissing. I tapped on it and within a couple minutes the piping going back to the boiler started heating up. I can still hear it whistling along with the steam return air vent. The gorton air vents are coming tomorrow, so we'll see what happens when I put those in. Oddly enough, now the low water cutoff isn't flashing like it's ready to trip the boiler. I've sat here and watched it enough, that I know where the water level will set the light off on the low water cutoff and it's below that level with no flashing light.

ethicalpaul

When the boiler is boiling, water can splash up and make the probe think there is water at that level. The probe can't think of course, but you know what I mean.

If your water level is dropping steadily like that over a long call for heat, that indicates your wet return is clogged. And wet returns don't clog like a toilet really, they fill up with nodules of corrosion like polyps on the inside of the pipe. The clogged area has to be replaced typically.

It's not the vent's fault, get that out of your head. The vent cannot prevent condensate from returning.

KJB

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1844881#Comment_1844881

So if I took the air vent out of the condensate return line and plugged it, condensate would still flow back to the boiler?

Long Beach Ed

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1844909#Comment_1844909

Yes it would.

ethicalpaul

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1844909#Comment_1844909

In fact, many people come here with their "main vent" (that's the name of the vent you are describing) having been removed and the port plugged years prior, including me about 7 years ago. You can see the discussion if you go to my profile.

Water flows without any connection to atmosphere. It will flow when all the vents in the whole system are closed due to steam. It will flow when the steam stops and the system goes into vacuum.

There are apparently some systems that were made that had all kinds of strange traps, seals, etc where condensate could be affected by vacuum, but they are very rare.

KJB

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1844881#Comment_1844881

How would I go about finding where it is clogged? Eventually last night the condensate return piping at the boiler got to roughly 130°. When I got up this morning and checked the glass, the boiler was off, and the level was right back to where I had it when I finished skimming and started it back up last night.

ethicalpaul

if it was me, once I was pretty sure the wet return was actually slow, I’d replace the whole thing with copper.

How long is it and how big is your boiler? 1” might be big enough—condensate is not much volume.

KJB

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1844950#Comment_1844950

I believe it is 1" or 1 1/4" for the condensate return. I'll check when I get home. Thanks for the insight. Much appreciated

ethicalpaul

The existing size may not be related to the size it needs to be

KJB

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1844956#Comment_1844956

I understand that. Kinda like the NBP on it ....