DIRECTION OF STEAM TRAVEL

JBB · February 19

My recently installed steam boiler has been piped with the steam feed from the boiler to the header feeding away from the equalizer then to the mains. Should the steam direction go toward the equalizer to avoid blocking condensate from returning? I am having alot of steam hammer! Thanks; JB

EdTheHeaterMan · February 20

The manufacture's instructions is pretty specific on the near boiler piping. Post a photo of the piping from far enough back so we can see the pipes from floor to ceiling. at least 3 different sides

Long Beach Ed · February 20

Ed's advice above is best, of course.

In good piping practice, the steam risers come off the boiler and enter the header. After a 12 inch nipple, the takeoffs for each main are connected to the header, with all or all but the last preferably at 45-degrees to the floor. Then the equalizer departs from the header with no horizontal reduction or with an eccentric fitting.

…unless otherwise specified by the manufacturer or a qualified fitter.

When we deviate from recommended or good practice, we may encounter problems. We may not. Compromises may be required and they have to be made with knowledge and experience and with a complete understanding of the entire system.

If you post a few pictures, someone here will diagnose your hammering problem I'm sure.

109A_5 · February 20

An example.

JBB · February 21

Here are some pics of the boiler piping.

The steam from the riser is not 6" away from the equalizer, and I think that some water from it is making the steam wet.

JBB · February 21

This is the piping for a Weil McLain PEG 45 steam boiler; 2nd attempt by the contractor, and still making a lot of noise, and not heating right! Any ideas?

LRCCBJ · February 21

Here is my one and only idea:

RTFM!!

109A_5 · February 22

WoW, how is this stuff that tough ??? The boiler's riser needs to go to where the cap is on that end of the header, the opposite end from the equalizer. How is the header pitched ?

Steam, condensate and any carryover need to be going in the same direction so when they separate out in the header they don't have to reverse directions, the steam goes up into the system and carryover / condensate goes into the equalizer.

LRCCBJ · February 22

WoW, how is this stuff that tough ???

Apparently, you need a college degree to avail yourself of the installation manual that is packaged WITH THE BOILER.

And, the diagram doesn't cut it for larger boilers.

Long Beach Ed · February 22

That's the most unique boiler piping I've seen in a long time…

I think he used every fitting he had on the truck.

109A_5 · February 22

The amount of wrong near boiler piping versions out there is amazing.

JBB · February 22

THANK YOU ONE AND ALL FOR PUTTING MY MIND AT EASE! I paid good money for a heat/plumbing contractor to do this piping job! By reading the manual that came with the boiler, I KNEW that it did not look right! No wonder I have hammering each time the boiler fires up, as I believe water is being drawn up into the mains from the equalizer. Now I have to TRY to get these same guys come back for the THIRD time to do this the right way! So, the steam flow should go toward the equalizer, not away from it. Should BOTH risers be used for dryer steam( mine has 2 plugs in the boiler top)? They used only one( prob to save cost)!

EBEBRATT-Ed · February 22

Can't read the manual or is so smart he thinks he doesn't need to read it. Trouble is his work says that he does need to read it.

Its all wrong.

LRCCBJ · February 22

Should BOTH risers be used for dryer steam( mine has 2 plugs in the boiler top)? They used only one( prob to save cost)!

The manual for the EG-45 shows that it is acceptable with a single 2" riser. No contractor would use two unless the customer demanded it. It is small enough to work acceptably well with a single 2" riser.

delcrossv · February 22

All else being equal and, given a large enough header, one may be sufficient, but two is better. IMHO.

Give us your BTUs and we can give a definite answer.

109A_5 · February 22

" Weil McLain PEG 45 steam boiler "

Minimum piping.

LRCCBJ · February 22

Interesting.

I found this for the EG:

EG.pdf

Only a single 2" riser………………………

109A_5 · February 22

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1844212#Comment_1844212

There is a difference between the series 4 and series 5

LRCCBJ · February 22

Apparently, somebody wised up!!

dabrakeman · February 22

One 2 1/2" riser is sufficient, 2 2" is better (19ft/s double vs 27ft/s single). The 27ft/s is not bad so wouldn't worry about that too much compared to just getting the configuration right. I'm not good at identifying the pipe sizes from the photos like many are here. What size did they use for the riser and header? If the OD is 2.375" it is 2", if 2.875" it is 2 1/2" and if 3.5" it is 3". I can't see the mains in the photos but I do see reducers on the rise to the mains. Unless the mains are smaller than the riser and header I would get rid of the reducers.

LRCCBJ · February 22

After spending a bit of time with the photos, I'm guessing that the riser and the header are both 3". He reduces both of the mains down to 2" with reducing couplings or bushings.

If correct, he has a fairly simple solution:

Remove the cap on the right end of the header and pipe the riser directly to that point. Eliminate the current horizontal piping from the riser to the left side of the header and plug the tee in the header.

All problems go away.

JBB · February 22

The riser and header are all 2-1/2", and it is reduced on the vertical takeoffs to 1-1/2". The mains are both 1-1/2". He reduced both to match the size of the mains. So you agree that with this current piping, water is being drawn up into the steam flow from equalizer, and condensate, which cannot return due to the steam direction being reversed?

LRCCBJ · February 22

You can get away with the 2.5 piping. Just run the 2.5" riser as high as possible (36" or more), do a U turn near the ceiling, and come down to the header and enter the header where the cap is currently located.

That's it.

JBB · February 22

Will do! Just making the steam go in the opposite direction from the way it goes currently! Thanks for the advice; you have all been very helpful!

109A_5 · February 22

EdTheHeaterMan · February 23

I can't follow this piping from such close shots. I took the time to put the pieces together so I could see how bad this is. Here is what I have come up with. Compare it to the Weil McLain illustration 18 that i modified for 2 main risers.

When compared to the instructions, (with modification for 2 main risers) there are too many extra fittings and pipes, along with possible incorrect pitch that can cause the header to hold condensate from returning to the equalizer back the the boiler return, and even pushing water back up into the main. Now that will bang like crazy

I think @109A_5 illustrates the easiest fix for your contractor. Just as long as the Header is properly pitched towards the Equalizer, and the Hartford loop is properly constructed. that 24" dimension can be more than 24" to get dryer steam. The higher the better.

Let your contractor look at this set of diagrams so it is more better clearer. Picture being worth a thousand words … and all.

The close nipple on the Hartford loop is important. The longer that pipe is the more noise it can make.

109A_5 · February 23

I don't even see a Hartford loop !!! Does it even exist ?

Maybe more pictures from a bit farther away that include the wet return piping.

LRCCBJ · February 23

Tell the contractor that you want 36" above the waterline instead of the 24" shown in the diagram. Higher is better. 24" is bare minimum.

JBB · February 23

No,they neglected to put in a Hartford ĺoop; along with the glaring other mistakes! Amazing that any steam is reaching any rads!

JBB · February 23

Thanks for the drawings and solutions! Should I also have him add two 45 degree fittings at the base of the takeoffs also?

TonKa · February 23

Considering the piping, I would not be surprised if your pressuretrol is set to 5 psi or more. It should be set to cut out at 1.5 psi and back in at .5 psi

LRCCBJ · February 23

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1844385#Comment_1844385

The main takeoffs are fine as they are. No need to do anything to them.

JBB · February 23

Thanks again! The pressurtrol is set exactly as you advised. I made sure of this b4 they came back the 2nd time, as I had lots of water being pushed with the steam due to the horrific initial piping job. I learned a lot from the Dan Holohan video lectures on YouTube!

DIRECTION OF STEAM TRAVEL

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