Oil Boiler Issues
Everything is brand new....
We replaced our oil boiler, we replaced the pump, the filter, the lines...my husband primes it....it starts up, runs for a week and then shuts down...and we just got an oil delivery so full tank....any suggestions? Any assistance is appreciated. Thank you.
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Yes, call the installer back. Something is wrong with the install, or the burner needs adjustment.
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I feel like we are reliving groundhog day....over and over....This has happened a few times, my husband primes it....it starts up...runs fine for a week and shuts down....the original installer is no longer available.....we have called technicians to come out...they look at it, do some adjusting....it starts up....they leave and then charge us , tired of paying for no help.......and then it happens again....there's got to be something my husband is missing....he has gone through it with a fine tooth comb...
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Is it actually losing the pump prime? You are getting air out of the oil pump when it is restarted? Do the oil lines come out of the top of the oil tank and are run overhead to the burner? You could have leaking fittings that are sucking air in but not leaking oil out. We see posts on this all the time
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A little more detail. What does the oil look like after your husband bleeds the line? Is he getting air when he bleeds? Is the fuel line buried, is it in good condition? If he is getting air there is a fuel leak and that should be easy enough to find. I he is not really getting air but coincidently it fires after bleeding There is a combustion issue. Does it smoke or smell like smoky oil when it fires?
Can you take some pictures of the boiler, the tank and the whole system from a few paces back?
Miss Hall's School service mechanic, greenhouse manager, teacher, dog walker and designated driver
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There might be something in the oil. Is your oil tank older?
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Oil tank is 5 years old...the last time when my husband bled it a week ago Thursday it had a little air and then a clear stream of oil....we got an oil delivery last Friday....we thought it might have been that the prior oil was not good...but that wasn't the case cause it happened with a new fill up. The fuel line isn't buried....he changed it as the prior one was the silicone...so he was like maybe the line froze...so it's now copper. When it fires up it smells like diesel fuel and it doesn't smoke at all. I'm at work so i can snap some pics when I get home. Thank you all for trying to help us figure out this puzzle.....we just don't understand why it runs for a whole week without issue and then stops..
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The installer who put in our new furnace did a Chop and swap....basically pulled the old one off....pulled the pipes out of the way....put the new one in....hooked everything up the same way the old one was.....then this started happening....so my husband did process of elimination piece by piece....there is nothing else that can be replaced ...our old one ran no issues for 4 years...we had a tech come clean the old one and that's when he showed us that we need to replace....so we did
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Depending on what "a little bit of air" means I find it hard to blame air for your issues. The smell of oil is concerning. When you replaced the boiler did you also replace the burner?
Miss Hall's School service mechanic, greenhouse manager, teacher, dog walker and designated driver
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@Grallert, Yes the burner is new × 2.....we bought a new one....then this happened.....we were like maybe we got a dud....it's under warranty so we returned it and got a new one. The air that comes through I just confirmed with my husband is not alot....very little.
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@SuperTech ......I do definitely feel like it's a priming issue.....but it doesn't make sense that after we prime....it's good for exactly a week and shuts down....
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Its actually an installer issue. How long ago was the install where the installer won't come back? I would try to hold payment if you could until the issue is resolved.
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This was installed in Sept. / October....he was already paid....
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Where are you located that a company installed a heating system only a few months ago and they're gone? Was this sub contracted through Home Depot or something?
A qualified tech with the right instruments needs to diagnose the intermittent safety issues.
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Did you use a credit card? dispute the charges. if you pay for somenting with a credit card and it does not work, then you can usually get your money refunded for the service that was not successful.
You need a professional that is familiar with oil burners, and what can go wrong with them. This can be a real problem with warranty work that you can no longer get the original contractor to honor. Ask the new repair man what guarantee they have that they can get it to work properly? If there is no guarantee, then don't pay and try someone else. And when you do find someone that you like, always pay by credit card so you have some recourse if it does not work.
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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@EdTheHeaterMan , this was a cash transaction....so we are not going to be able to have a warranty on the install....as for getting a new technician....there have been several that have came put and they get it going and leave....then charge....we are sick of paying for the bandaid....which is why my husband jumped in an started troubleshooting.....there has to be someone that knows what's going on and why.....we just do not want to go broke having technicians come put if they aren't going to
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@HVACNUT , the person that installed it....is not in the state any longer.....he worked for an HVAC company out of Mass....he was a friend of a friend that did it as a moonlight job on the side.....we bought the boiler and all the parts and he installed it.....the tech that initially cleaned our old boiler told us if we didn't want to spend $18,000 for a big outfit to install we could actually do the chop and swap ourselves but my husband doesn't know alot about these types of furnaces, so we hired the HVAC friend of a friend as he had more experience.....well that HVAC friend of a friend is now gone.
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I took a 7 month evening class 2 times a week to study oil burners in 1976. I worked in the trade for 6 months as a helper doing mainly heater cleaning and tune ups. I did all the dirty work and the experienced mechanic did the final adjustments and the combustion test for at least 2 months before I was allowed to make those adjustments myself, under supervision. After 2 more months of supervised burner maintenance, I was able to go Solo and do the "Heater Cleanings" myself. There were some spot checks of my work for another 2 months or so. Eventually I was awarded a Modern OilHeat certificate and a certificate from the evening classes.
I worked as a burner service tech just cleaning heaters for about 2 years before I was allowed to do my first service call (other than a heater cleaning) and I got that one all wrong. Now it is 2025 and there are very few oil burner problems that I can't resolve.
I don't know what your husband's capabilities are, And I am sorry that you are having problems with your new oil burner, but you are playing with fire (A REAL FIRE) in your home so I don't give this advise lightly. You need to find someone that knows how to fix oil burners. But there are a few things you can check when the burner trips the safety.
- What primary control is on your new oil burner (that is the control with the reset button) Brand name and model number/pare number. or send a picture.
- What happens if you hit the reset button without any other fix or adjustment. Just reset and tell me what happens.
- If you don't get a flame on step 2, what do you do next?
- If you prime the fuel pump on step 3, do you get any air? How much air (in seconds) before you get a solid stream of oil with no air bubbles?
Lets start there and see what to do next.
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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We need to know where your oil tank is. In the basement, outside above ground or outside underground?
Do you have 1 oil line connected to the burner or 2 lines?
Chances are you have a leak in the oil line. It may not leak oil but could pull air in.
Post the city and state you are in we may know someone who can help. And check find a contractor on this site.
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OK with that information, I would look at the fuel line from the tank to the burner. You can get a Tiger Loop and fix the problem with that. But that is just making a poor fuel line installation work without actually fixing the air leak in the line. I have gone on several fuel line problems where the flare fittings were nor flared correctly and the fitting did not seal 100%. Maybe 95% and that is goos enough in most cases, but in your case that 5% of leakage lets enough air in the fuel pump to cause the burner to not light because the pump can not build enough oil pressure to open the pressure regulator valve in the pump to allow fuel to go to the nozzle.
Just a small squirt out of the priming port will release the air and you are back in business. So describe the fuel oil tank location and how the fuel line exits the tank and gets to the burner. For example the tank is outside above ground or it is buried, or is is in the basement. The fuel line is connected to the bottom tank valve, or it is a top feed with a copper pipe that goes to within a few inches of the tank bottom, then turns to the floor and goes to the burner, or the fuel line runs overhead from the tank the the burner location. And finally, when the tank is near empty the oil surface level is above the burner, or below the burner. A photo of the fuel line near the tank and near the burner would be helpful
You will need a good quality flaring tool for the copper line size you have in order to repair any poorly flared copper on those flare fittings.
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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Oil tank is outside, above ground and its got metal housing around it built special for it...we have 2 lines connected to the burner. My husband changed the oil filer and when he disconnected normally he said oil would be pouring out of the line....but this has not happened....which is what he thought too that we had a leak in the line or lines....so they have been replaced...he then made sure all the fittings were tightened....so that no air could get in....but again still didn't work. We are in Hartland, Connecticut.
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@EdTheHeaterMan ....thank you so much....I will still get you a picture of the burner and the fuel line near the burner as you asked.....I will convey this to my husband. I will keep you posted and let you know the status..
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Is your tank a Roth or a Granby? A plastic tank in a metal box? Is it square? I ask because if so, some of the suction line in those tanks were rubber and prone to collapse under a suction vacuum. Some even split causing intermittent lock out. With a Two pipe fuel system with a sound set of fuel lines one supplying and one returning to the tank it's unlikely a small amount of air would lock the burner out. These are just clues I'm thinking about. I'm starting to think there is an ignition problem. In other words, you are getting fuel and ignition for a week or more with no problem. So I doubt it's air in the fuel and more likely a problem with the ignitor. What kind of burner is it?
This is the point where picture are useful.
Miss Hall's School service mechanic, greenhouse manager, teacher, dog walker and designated driver
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@EdTheHeaterMan ....my husband was told that the 2 line system was supposed to be better than the tiger loop...is that true? My husband said he is willing to try anything at this point, so if you feel the tiger loop might help fix the problem then he will install one.
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A tiger loop has all the benefits of a single pipe system with the features of a two pipe system. A two pipe system does not need to ever be primed, that is because all the air in the pump is returned to the tank by way of the return line. On a one pipe system the air gets stuck in the pump.
On a two pipe system the full capacity of the pump's gear set will be moving thru the small fual line. on some pumps that can be as much as 22 gallons per hour or more. I believe that you have a pump that moves about 17 gallons per hour. Some fuel filters can not handle a fuel capacity of more that 10 gallons per hour. So you would need to change the fuel filter to one that can handle 25 gallons per hour rate of flow. You will also need to run another copper fuel line from the pump to the tank. If the tank is outside and above ground, the fuel on the coldest days of the winter may have trouble flowing thru such a small fuel line at a rate of over 10 GPH.
Leaving the flow rate from the tank to the boiler room is always better to be as slow as possible. If your burner nozzle is only 1.5 GPH or lower, then moving only 1.5 GPH from the tank to the burner is easier on the pump and the oil in the fuel line.
The Tiger Loop does the 2 pipe fuel line for the short distance of the pump to the Tiger Loop and back to the pump. The Tiger Loop has a vent to eliminate any air that is in the system by pumping it out of the pump (just like priming the pump) to the Tiger Loop where the vent can remove that air. That leaves only fuel in the pump for better combustion.
It will most likely solve your problem as would a 2 pipe system. without the possibility of adding a problem that a two pipe system may cause to your system.
If I tested all of your fuel line connections and could not find the source of the air leak within an hour, then i would recommend that you get the Tiger Loop… Problem Solved.
If you want to find the leak, then you need to start with a vacuum gauge and a way to valve off the feed at the tank so all the fittings from the tank to the burner are included in the test. After that first test indicated that there is a leak, then I would do the test again eliminating about 1/2 of the fitting connections. If the leak stops then you will know that the leak is in the fittings that you eliminated. If you still have the leak, then you eliminate more fittings as you get closer to the burner. Eventually you find the leaking fitting and correct the leak. Then test the entire fuel line again just to make sure that you don't have 2 leaking fittings. The leak can actually be on the fuel pump seal or strainer gasket. A vacuum test on the fuel system will find the leak and you wont need a 2 pipe or a Tiger Loop. You just need the proper tools.
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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Hartland, CT, @Jadams4978 ? May I ask who your oil supplier is? Assuming, that is, that you do have a regular supplier, and not spot buy? I know that at least two major suppliers in your area have very good quality oil burner techs on staff (Quinoco and Patterson). If you don't have a service contract with them, they will charge for service. They may anyway… if you don't buy oil from them, however, they probably won't have time (and that isn't an excuse — this time of year they are peddling pretty hard).
Some of the other companies may also have good service techs — but I happen to know those two.
Br. Jamie, osb
Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
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@EdTheHeaterMan ....thank you....I will relay this to my husband.
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A tiger loop or a tiger loop ultra (includes filter) is better than two fuel lines for all the reasons @EdTheHeaterMan explained. Certainly can't hurt. They were always included in my installations. I have found on more than one occasion that if the pick up line at the top of a Roth or any HDP (High Density Polyethylene) tank is rubber, and some of them were, and cracked the problem will continue. A tiger loop can only handle so much air before that air starves the burner. Check that pick up line in the tank. Check all the fittings and all the flares (I sure hope they're flares) flairs? Obviously someone need to check all the settings including pressures and drafts, with instruments/analyzer.
Miss Hall's School service mechanic, greenhouse manager, teacher, dog walker and designated driver
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Consider this: Due to inexperience, someone installed a buried tank on a new construction property. They also thought it was a good idea to install a oil fired furnace in the attic of this 2 story home with a basement. At some point in the problem solving I was called (as I had a reputation for solving fuel oil burner issues in my area) to find the best solution for this poorly planned system.
So the bottom of the fuel tank was located at least 28 feet below the fuel pump on the oil fired furnace. The rule of thumb I was taught back over 40 years ago is that you need 1" Hg. vacuum for every foot of lift from the bottom of a tank. The oil burner for that furnace is equipped with a single stage pump. The maximum vacuum that a single stage pump can handle is about 7" Hg. The correct fix is to install a booster pump on the first floor or basement and the proper pressure regulator at the oil burner in the attic. The other option is to use a day tank in the attic. The original contractor did not have this included in the budget for the job and was frustrated that the pump that came with the oil burner would not do the job.
To add to the homeowner's frustration, they did not want pressurized fuel lines inside the walls of their new home. "What if one of those lines started to leak, there would be oil all over the home inside the walls" And they were not interested in using a day tank in he attic to solve the problem. So there I was with the impossible task of getting oil up from the bottom of a fuel tank that was 28 feet below the burner. So I tried this:
- Install a 2 stage pump that comes with two sets of pump gears, one to lift the oil and the other to pressurize the fuel to the nozzle port.
- Since those pumps are designed to handle up to 17" Hg. vacuum, they are often used at gas stations with oil furnaces that are near the ceiling and also have buried fuel oil tanks.
- But 17"Hg. vacuum would only handle 17 feet and I needed to go 28 feet.
- Then I thought about the 2 pipe system trying to lift that oil at the full gear set capacity of 20 GPH. That is a lot of friction to overcome. What if I was only lifting 0.65 GPH oil thru the fuel line. That is a lot less friction.
- That will draw less vacuum so maybe, just maybe, a tiger loop will do the job here. And it did.
So there were no pressurizes oil lines in the home, there was no day tank in the attic, and the oil burner operated just fine. That was the lowest additional cost option that would satisfy everyone. the builder was able to go to closing with an operational heating system, the homeowner was pleased with the results, and I did not hear from them in the next 10 years after my creative fix. And I got paid for my services. Everybody wins.
Tiger Loop was invented to solve problem fuel delivery systems. If God didn't want us to solve fuel line problems with a Tiger loop, then he would not have let someone invent it.
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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I don't know why this discussion is focused on oil lines. It's a 2 pipe setup. No priming the pump needed. @Jadams4978 states "When it fires up it smells like diesel fuel and doesn't smoke at all." It shouldn't smell like anything when it fires. Especially if it's brand new.
IMO, more attention needs to be on the burner. Especially if a combustion test was never done at the end of the installation. It could be just a simple air adjustment. So take the wise advice of @Jamie Hall, find a full service oil heat provider and get it fixed right. You'll likely have to pay for the initial repair, but most repairs should be no charge after that. Its not DIY if you don't have the instruments and knowledge. You do know that your new heating system requires annual maintenance. And its not just nozzle, filter, strainer, fire.
I wonder if the installer knows what a bypass plug is.
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@HVACNUT said "I wonder if the installer knows what a bypass plug is"
Never have to bleed a two-pipe system especially when it has already been run.
Check the oil filter and make sure all gaskets are in place. The main bowl gasket and the gaskets uner the bolt and any bleeder ports. I have had those leak. The gaskets usually come with the replacement filter.
The flares on the tubing have to be good a bad flare that is tightened will not seal.
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I was misinformed. I thought that @Jadams4978 answered my query about what happens after they push the reset. I thought I got an answer that mentioned that they needed to prime and they got a little air out of the prime port. It seems like that comment is no longer there OR I got mixed up with another oil burner problem that is was helping at the same time.
Looking at the entire thread, there is a mention of a 2 pipe fuel line system from an outside above ground tank. If the problem is happening during extreme cold weather and is gone when the weather is mild, that is an entirely different problem. I need some clarity here, So i will ask again:
- What primary control is on your new oil burner (that is the control with the reset button) Brand name and model number/pare number. or send a picture.
- What happens if you hit the reset button without any other fix or adjustment. Just reset and tell me what happens.
- If you don't get a flame on step 2, what do you do next?
- If you prime the fuel pump on step 3, do you get any air? How much air (in seconds) before you get a solid stream of oil with no air bubbles?
Lets start there and see what to do next.
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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I read this and see a flaw in the information presented:
"Oil tank is outside, above ground and its got metal housing around it built special for it...we have 2 lines connected to the burner. My husband changed the oil filer and when he disconnected normally he said oil would be pouring out of the line....but this has not happened....which is what he thought too that we had a leak in the line or lines....so they have been replaced...he then made sure all the fittings were tightened....so that no air could get in....but again still didn't work."
If you have a flare fitting that has a copper tube that was nit flared correctly, then no matter how tight you wrench on the flare nut, the poorly flared copper will not make a liquid tight seal. The person that is making the flares at the end of the copper tubing must remove any internal burr from the copper tube. the copper tubing cutter will always make a ridge on the inside of the tubing, that ridge MUST be reamed out of the tubing before inserting the raw end of the tube in the flaring block and screwing down the tool to make the tubing flare out. If you flare out too much or too little of the end, then the flare will not seal properly, if the inside dimension of the tubing is not perfectly round, the flare will not seal properly. if you fold over a portion of the inner burr of the tubing because it was not properly reamed out, the flare will not seal properly. If you use a pipe joint compound that contains teflon on the flare portion of the tubing, the flare will not leal properly.
I had a friendly competitor that also sold fuel oil the would ask me to solve some issues that were a problem for him. It turns out that most of his fuel line problems were because he never learned the proper way to prepare the end of 3/8" copper tubing for the flaring tool and there were always burs that folded over and kept the flare from sealing properly. I suspect that the new fuel lines have bad flares at the ends of the tubing. If they are bad enough, a two pipe system may leak enough air into the supply tube to make the burner trip the reset with the new 15 second trial for ignition primary controls.
Sometimes having a little air in the fuel line upon ignition will make the fuel burn on startup have a more noticeable odor than a smooth light off that has no air in the fuel line. The amount of time that the burner is off will also affect the amount of air in the fuel line. So a mild day may have the problem when the colder days do not.
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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To the homeowner, I feel your pain! Intermitent lockouts are frustrating for all involved. If its a new boiler the primary control should give you some info. If its a primary that logs cycles or lockouts I read that info which can help diagnose, such as, does it lose flame why running or fail to ignite on startup? And what other info does it give? Sometimes on old systems with a problem I change primary controls to a digital one that logs info just to help me diagnose.
I remember a job that was "unsolvable". Someone will say there is no such thing. Talked to Beckett and everybody on that one and they seemed to think there was some wierd thing with the oil in the underground tank, which they said can happen. That customer moved away and the new homeowners never called me, sooo.? In that case, oil pumps would seize up (yes, new ones too) even tho the oil system was all perfect. Adding lubricity seemed to help or fix it till the next oil fillup. I told homeowner what lubricity additive to use at each fillup and didn't hear more but then in yr or two he moved.
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This thread makes me ponder problems again. These things happen. I am amazed sometimes how quickly techs on this site jump to conclusions and blame…whoever. (Yes, there is a lot of poor workmanship out there.) I agree that the installer should warranty everything on an install for maybe a year but when these things happen everyone loses. Homeowner, installer, sometimes manufacturer. Hey if everthing always worked like the book says we would not need near as much markup and neither would the manufacturer! And then when you call in another tech because the installer is not available they will need to be paid. Yea, we aren't cheap to call out… but who is. We are not trying to rip people off but trying to do good service and still make a normal living.
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@EdTheHeaterMan you didn't imagine the OP's comment about bleeding. OP wrote in 2 separate posts that:
"the last time when my husband bled it a week ago Thursday it had a little air and then a clear stream of oil…
…the air that comes through I just confirmed with my husband is not alot....very little."
Sounds like your diagnosis of bad flares due to not reaming is likely. Seems what is confusing them is the leak is so small that the oil pump will run for a week or so before losing prime again.
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But a tiny leak should not make problem with a two line system, should it?
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Exactly correct. That is the reason for a 2 pipe system, to eliminate problems with "Tiny Air Leaks".
I wonder if the first reset charges the fuel line with oil but by the time the oil reached the pump, the 15 second trial for ignition has timed out. Now on the second reset, the oil is there and only a small amount of air is purged from the priming port. Since there is 2 pipes the second reset would result in the burner firing regardless of the primp port being open or closed. Without the experience of 40 years of oil burner operation, the homeowner has only what is in front of them to go by. Others have thousands of oil burners and their problems over the years to reference. Now you need one of those with experience to get in front of that burner and really look at the problem.
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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and we still haven't defined what "a little air" is,
a split second, a second or 2, 3 going on 5 seconds?
known to beat dead horses0
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