EK System 2000 Issue with 007e circulator

Resipsa88

I put an extension on my house and as a result put a new zone on my house. The zones are my three bedrooms all with baseboard (no air vent because plumber cut it out during extension and did not replace - hoping to fix in march). 1 Radiant Zone (contains a buffer tank to support 2 manifolds of radiant heat) and a master bedroom (new zone). The new zone features 2 small aluminum radiators (the thermostatic control) and a strip of baseboard. Radiators were done in series plumber thought given they were aluminum and small that they would not be a issue. System was purged after hte install (all lines including pre-existing).

Plumber said there was still a little air but it would go away over time. I have heard air purged from the caleffi air vent (whatever comes with EK). Ever since the new work my circulator seems to be thinking its air bound/airbound. The system seems to get airbound only at start up though (which seems strange to me as air should rise). The air can be heard most frequently when directed toward the buffer tank (which has an air vent (not sure if its working).

I had the EK technician come and he suggested that the issue may be the resistance through the new radiators are creating cavitation for the pump and he suggested piping them in parallel (which I plan to do in march since its bitter cold here in NY).

Interestingly though the 007e when airbound when I jostle the electric plug on it, it appears to become airbound. Sometimes after becoming airbound (for maybe a minute running) the circulator will shut off (lose power). Anyone experience a 007e with maybe a faulty circuitboard/sensor?

Sometimes the circuit will become unairbound the light will turn red (failure) on the 007e and then shut off. To get it to run consistently I have to find the right position for the plug and then after some time it still seems like its struggling to figure out what speed it needs to operate at (as I can hear the pump changing speeds). It has become very annoying.

I am thinking of swapping over the alpha 58 FR, but may in the interim swap my 007e out if I can just replace the pump housing. I dont think the rotor is failing/ or blocked (as suggested by red light). Anyone know if the pump housing on the 007e can be swapped without having to bleed the line?

Any suggestions are appreciated. It does seem like the air is becoming less frequent, but I could just be imagining things.

Resipsa88

I had some work done on my house and one new line installed with two aluminum radiators. They were not piped in parallel (plan to fix it in March when it warms). Ever since the system seems to get bound up occasionally. Tech believes it’s due to pump creating air and resistance in the line with the radiators pumped in series. Orrifices on radiators are small(so may be true).

Only thing is it seems strange to me that it is airbornd only at the start up wouldn’t the air move. In addition if a jostle the electrical plug on the taco it will unbind instantly.

Recently also the taco seems to while working sometimes flash red and shutoff or just randomly shut off.

I am contemplating replacing the circulator with alpha grundalos since it seems it has a better controller.

However anyone know if I wanted to replace the 007e and I think it may be a faulty circuit board whether I could just remove the housing while still attached to the boiler put the new motor housing on. If that is the case I might just replace it first with the 007e.

essentially swapping the pump motor without having to bleed the system? There are valves before and after but would require bleeding the boiler itself and rather not introduce even more air given my situation

Resipsa88

i forgot to note that the system was entirely bled after the additional zone. I occasionally do hear air in the lines, the air remover does go off although very infrequently. The issue seems to be inconsistent in when it gets air bound sometimes it happens when the call is for my buffer tank radiant (hear the air the most when it circulates in that system). Wondering if maybe the air remover on the buffer tank is not working also?

Joe Mattiello

When you purged the system, did you isolate zones, and do one zone at a time? You can take an amp reading to see if the pump is running. If. it's making noise, similar to cavitation, it's often mis-understood as aeration.

I'm sure the pump is fine

Jamie Hall

If it misbehaves or rather starts behaving when you jostle or wiggle the plug… Start by finding out what the problem with the plug and socket is.

Robertw

Good morning,

Are you saying this system worked prior to the completion of the new work? System pictures may help. Any chance the wiring to the Taco was jostled during the add on work? Theres a plastic connector on the Taco E that if manhandled may become loose. This loose connection may give you the scenario you've described. Lack of circulation in a hot water system can cause steaming issues which will add air to an other wise air free system. But it can also be created by a piping issue.

hot_rod

some of the ECM will try to purge air out by revving up the speed for a period of time. If you have air pockets in the pump volute itself, that doesn’t always work so well

I built these clear plastic pumps to observe how air gets trapped in the pump volute, occasionally

The check valves in the pump bodies can also trap air in the pump so the pump will not flow properly until it can pop open the check to send the air to a purger

Notice I added small bleeder into the pump to demonstrate the air removal better.

Sometimes boosting the fill pressure a few psi will get rid of an air problem. The pressure increase squeezes the air pockets down so the travel to the purger better.

I have some videos of this in action

IMG_9367.jpeg

IMG_9473.jpeg

HeatingHelp.com

@Resipsa88, I've merged your duplicate discussions into one here to prevent confusion. Thanks.

Resipsa88

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1836454#Comment_1836454

I am not so sure, so I have not heard air in the line like a I used to, but the pump seems to be flickering between white and then going orange. The only thing I can think of if its not t the pump, is the pump itself is pulling to fast and creating the cavitation issue itself (which would partially be a piping issue. If i isolate the new zone I am experience this issue in a zone i previously was not.

Also Does not seem to make sense that moving the electrical plug in the circuit board to certain position alters from airbound state to non-airbound state. It is not like I am totally losing power (reseting the pump) which from what I have noticed the 007e spins faster to start up and then sort of slows down.

Sort of weird situation. The circuit board also seems to only given intermittent power based on position which suggests to me that the circuit board is acting up electrically. Currently i have to bias the position by wedging something to I guess receive a contact. It does not look like there is any corrosion on either the male contacts on the circuit board or the female contacts on the plug.

Only other thing is maybe the controller on the EK is acting up and not sending consistent voltage.

Issue outside of positional contact (which is a big nuissance) now appears that the pump only has issue at start up once the start up happens (whether the burner is on (system not hot enough) or burner is idle.

Resipsa88

I am mechanical engineer background who actually designed pumps (so I understand) what you are talking about. The system 2000 my understanding and from speaking to the Technician does not use any check valves.

I really do believe the circulator is creating the issue itself as the air in the lines has pretty drastically been reduced (very infrequent) but it still during run time sometimes thinks its air bound for a second and then starts spinning again and realizes its not.

Note this issue appears to be happening in zones that previously had no issues (isolating the new zone).

Resipsa88

Robert,

Yes I do believe part of it is self inflicted by the circulator thinking its air bound, water getting to hot and creating steam in the line. I removed the cover and currently have to wedge something in the plug area to mantain a contact. Problem is I believe vibration from the burner igniting loosens the wedge and as a result after a few cycles the contact is lost.

It appears the issue though is the result of after the system goes idle and a call for heat occurs (really only happens on start up).

Not sure if the alpha grundflos will improve but it seems to have better control system, plus the plug keeping voltage is annoying enough where I am replacing it mainly for convenience to ensure the electric is correct.

I recently got a classic mode error on my digital (LED display) controller, I called you guys and said that is a sign the controller is going bad and may need to be replaced in the future (not sure if that is accurate). I havent tested it but I guess another possibility is its the controller providing intermittent voltage to the pump. I guess I can try to wedge my voltmeter in the connection between the pump and the controller to see if the voltage/amperage remains constant.

hot_rod

There may be a check in the discharge port of that circ? EK would know if they install or leave that check out.

Robertw

@Resipsa88, We don't have a check in the oo7E on the system 2k. I'd be happy to look into your issue for you. Pm Me with some system pictures and we can work on figuring out what's going on for you.

Resipsa88

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1836522#Comment_1836522

Appreciate it. I think I am going to try switching the pump (once this cold snap passes NY). I feel pretty confident that its the circulator thats acting up…. However, not withstanding I will send pictures in case you think its something else. As I said the technician (person how installed original system) not the new zone suggested I properly pipe the radiators (which I will do in the spring).