We Got Steam Heat - wish I never read this book
It's incredibly frustrating and disheartening to try and find a contractor who adheres to even one thing mentioned in this book. None of the contractors I interviewed and one was recommended by the website, was going to insulate the near boiler pipes. They would do it for more money though. And no one even cared about the chimney. They actually said "Oh a contractor might tell you that your chimney should be lined but that's not true". One at least was willing to look at it as part of the job, since I mentioned it, the other was not.
Both said the current piping was not the best but were not going to reconfigure it until asked.
If I ever move, I'm definitely not buying another house with steam heat. Although I love the humidity and charm of it from an aesthetic perspective, it's a nightmare to find a contractor who knows or wants to do the right thing by the customer.
Comments
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Where are you located?
All Steamed Up, Inc.
Towson, MD, USA
Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
Oil & Gas Burner Service
Consulting0 -
steam and humidity?
you want a contractor to insulate and not get paid?
Where is this house?
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@bfinacchio I sure have heard this before, and it is certainly understandable. However there are folks who continue to work with steam. On this sight you can click on the find a contractor setting and go from there.
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was going to insulate the near boiler pipes. They would do it for more money though.
This is reasonable. They aren't going to quote insulation as part of their base quote when they know the competition isn't going to either. Of course they are going to charge money to do more work.
Although I love the humidity and charm of it
Steam heat doesn't provide any different humidity than forced air, unless your system is full of leaks, which would be a Bad Thing™
NJ Steam Homeowner.
Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el
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Instead try this explanation. Steam heat should not be thought of as a system that will provide humidity as a desirable source. Vents on radiators do indeed offer some humidity in operation but to say it doesn't any differently then warm air?
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The same house with forced air will have more infiltration than with radiators. Forced air relies on creating pressure differences within the house to get air to flow, some of that pressure difference will cause infiltration from the outside, which is what causes houses to get dry in the winter.
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+1. Absent infiltration, people exhale a good deal of humidity.
Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.0 -
I'd have to see real data to believe this. Pressure differences within the house is not the same as pressure differences outside the house.
I would say that the vacuum caused by the exhaust of combustion gases greatly overrides any possible difference due to forced air blower.
at any rate I hope we can all agree that it's misguided to think that steam heat provides better humidity
NJ Steam Homeowner.
Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el
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I hit the like but wanted to do the LOL.
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You can edit your clicks
NJ Steam Homeowner.
Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el1 -
But it doesn't allow for both. It only allows for one.
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Ahh you didn't say you wanted to do both 😉
Yeah a "friendly LOL" would be a good one in addition to the "I'm laughing at you LOL" that some people use on my posts 😅
NJ Steam Homeowner.
Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el0 -
LOL kindly submitted .
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They laugh because they have no possible rebuttal for your careful research and documentation………..and they resort to ad-hominem attacks because "you're not a plumber". BS
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No.. sorry for that . My attempt at humor was not meant to mock the original post but only to poke fun at myself and to rib @ethicalpaul a bit. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
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We need a steam heated house with ducted combustion air.
That said, one pipe does add some minimal humidity via the vents. And considerable humidity if the vents are bad. 🤣
I do wonder why steam heated buildings "feel" more humid though- no data, just personal experience.
Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.
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I very much agree. Steam heat feels so much more comfortable. I grew up as a kid with one pipe steam heat. A Sears boiler of all things. My Dad made me in charge of keeping it at the correct water level. It was a manual feed. (Was probably even a Sears house.) The comfort level was always there. I don't remember being uncomfortable in the dead of winter. Warm air, while it can be a nice system I have never been as comfortable.
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I have installed more fiberglass insulation than I wish to remember. Do you really wanna pay a plumber or steamfitter (highly skilled trade) to install insulation? It's something the HO can do or hire a handyman for much less $$.
If the client insists, I give them a professional insulating outfit. The anger will wear off. Atleast you know tons more going foward. Mad Dog
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The comfort level was always there. I don't remember being uncomfortable in the dead of winter. Warm air, while it can be a nice system I have never been as comfortable.
The steam system is terrific at radiated heat due to its elevated temperatures. You will always "feel warmer".
The FHA system has no radiated heat. It does have air that flows across your skin that is typically lower than body temperature………….so, you will always "feel colder".
I have probably the finest FHA system ever designed. Totally silent. But, I have to keep the 'stat at 70°F. A steam system would allow me to go down to 68°F. I have mitigated the FHA issue with moisture (typically down around 25%). I maintain the large room at 40-45% manually using a stovetop burner delivering steam and running constantly when occupied. Large comfort difference.
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The problem that the Original Poster laments is common with old house owners when seeking any antiquated trade. I would use the word obsolete, but that's a bit extreme for steam plumbing.
Try getting your glue chipped glass reproduced. Or your gold leafed house numbers painted. Or find repairs to plaster molding. Tile roofing? Repair to stonework or repointing of lime-pointed bricks. Heck, try to get a chimney crown repaired.
Old materials and antiquated crafts are time-consuming and labor intensive. As materials fall from everyday use and inflation increases commodity costs, prices for what were once everyday items soar.
If you need repairs to anything that isn't readily made anymore or stocked at Home Depot you'll hunt for the rare individual who has had the interest in and has taken the time and effort to become conversant in their application and repair. You'll have to pick through the jungle of fraudsters and phoneys who just want your money to find a craftsman.
The conversant, educated and reputable tradesman probably won't be the low bidder, either. People who are trained, educated, skilled and honest have no need to bid low or work cheap.
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Warm air can be excellent heat ….if done properly. Although I prefer steam and HW warm air needs to be done right and is less forgiving.
Proper airflow with not excessive velocity and careful location of supplies and ductwork that is sized properly will give you a system that is quiet and heats or cools well.
Ducted heating or cooling has more things that can be done wrong on the install that gives it a bad name.
Most of the USA is heated by ductwork. Steam and hot water is a lot smaller %
My old boss was a PE. He designed a system for a big shot owner of a department store so this thing had to work.
You couldn't even here the system rum when it was on
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with all these discussions of steam, hot water , , radiant, heat pumps whatever the common denominator when done right!
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I have forced air at my house. (Originally gravity hot air). Took looking through several contractors but found a company that pulled out all the 6" round and MADE a new system on site- all rectangular duct sized for flow rate ,"pair of pants" splits ,the works. It is quiet and even.
That said, I do have to keep a higher temp than I would have to with steam or hot water.
Cost wise, doing this was probably comparable to installing HWH. But i was able to reuse some room risers. Outside of commercial installs, no one does FA that way anymore.
Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.2 -
Biggest reason forced air is the rezzi choice here is cost. Any idiot, drunk or high, can slam together some duct, a couple runs, half **** a return or two and gas a furnace. Throw in an ac and you got yourself a humdinger of a temperature regulating system for your home. Sounds like crap, heats like crap, half the rooms are too cold, hot or noisy. But hey, the price is right. And in 10 years, you get to replace the system because the parts aren't available or too expensive vs replacement costs.
A well thought/planned out air system can work ok, but thats not possible with the "quality" of work home builders demand. Hot water or steam is out of the question except on custom homes.
Probably why I no longer do residential work.
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I'd say the big reason for the popularity of forced air is that air conditioning is essentially free once you've installed the ductwork.
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So do they put supply registers low, optimized for heat, or high, optimized for AC?
Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.0 -
you haven’t seen my bids!😇
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Just FYI:
The company that told bFinacchio that they would only insulate the pipes for an additional fee, and only after the boiler's been running for a few weeks to make sure there are no insulation-ruining leaks, was mine.Here's the boiler she wants to replace. All copper header not shown.
Apparently, unlike the company that installed her first boiler, we failed to convince her that we know what we're doing. That or we're just not up to the monumental task of replacing this EG-35.
Contact John "JohnNY" Cataneo, NYC Master Plumber, Lic 1784
Consulting & Troubleshooting
Heating in NYC or NJ.
Classes
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You can't save everyone.
Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.4 -
Yes.
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Given the OP's comments, @JohnNY , I'd say you dodged a bullet on that one. None of us need clients of that calibre.
Br. Jamie, osb
Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England4 -
your free to use anyone you want. This is what I recommend and advise!
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"You wouldn't even know a diamond if you held it in your hand...." Steely Dan
When the vast majority of Plumbing & Heating contractors do marginal work, at best, we that don't, have to justify ourselves to THAT Lowest Common Denominator....very frustrating, demoralizing & aggravating. Mad Dog
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Both? 😂
Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.
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I have a question on how they did it? How did they get sufficient duct size through 2x4 walls? 3 1/2 x 14 1/2 is probably good for a single vent. They would have needed to open up all the walls on the first floor………….to get to the second floor…………???
The basement probably needed 20" x 20" mains…………….???
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Yep. One riser, one vent. Mains are split at the air handler so mostly 8 x 18s
I was doing a lot of other work, so opening walls wasn't a big deal.
Return into the EAC is 18x24.
Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.0 -
Well done.
That is a lot of work.
This place has similar…………..built from scratch in 1989. Silent…………except, if you are really listening closely in the middle of the night, you can barely hear a whisper when the bedroom unit starts. The furnaces are in the basement.
Just try to find a retrofit CAC system that comes anywhere near close to these levels.
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Yeah. Not unless it's a custom build with a lot of subsequent drywall work. 😉
I don't see how someone can get quiet with tiny, high velocity ducts.
Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.1 -
like everything else, when done properly you’d be surprised
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I don't see how someone can get quiet with tiny, high velocity ducts.
Like everything else, when done properly, you'd be surprised. Very cost effective too:
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