A heating challenge!

klmkurt

Hello all,

We have recently acquired an old granary building where we will be moving our business into. The building is bare. We have single phase electric currently and will be adding three-phase back eventually. It was removed.

There is no natural gas available, the building footprint is pretty much the lot size, so there is no room for proper propane tank setback.

We are exploring the option for a sawdust furnace, already priced a sawdust boiler…quite expensive at 68k, we will see on the furnace.

Last resort is electric, really don't want to do this, but it may be a good option. Esp electric hydronic. Perhaps a boiler with an indirect hot water heater? The building is 10,000 sf.

I understand we can use a smaller boiler with an indirect. This system would most likely be separated from domestic hot water.

Any input on an electric boiler or hot water heater, an indirect hot water heater and then hydronic unit heaters? sizing?

GGross

If you really want to get good feedback you may share a few more specifics, like what specifically are you doing with the building? you say a business but what type of business, factory, office, art gallery, retail etc. How many employees? what climate zone? Occupied hours? Are there going to be any large machines in the space? are you processing wood and creating a ton of combustible sawdust? rough sketch of the building as you suppose it will be once finished, general layout and what each space will be used for. Also keep in mind that depending on your jurisdiction you may be required to get an engineer to stamp your mechanical design, and possibly other plans as well, but no harm in seeking advice before committing to an engineered design.

klmkurt

SGC FLOOR PLAN.pdf

Thanks,

Good questions. Attached is the current iteration. We manufacture custom wood windows and doors. Climate zone is 4. 4-6 employees. Machines per the pdf. Sawdust is created, but not an issue, dust collection is very good. We operate normal day shifts. Not shown is the office space which will be a loft area to the left of the grain silo. This area is 37'6" x 23'6" There are 6 other grain silos above this. All silos will be sealed. They are very tall.

Grallert

If you have room and the budget you could make your own pellets or bricks to burn in a solid fuel boiler like a Froling or such with thermal storage.

klmkurt

Love to, the boiler for such is 68k and a briquette press can be another 35k at least. It would be difficult to get the ROI on that. We are looking at a sawdust furnace (hot air) These can introduce sawdust from a hopper and are widely used in Europe. We will see what the cost is….

Larry Weingarten

Hi, I assume there is a loading dock with big roll up door? If so, is that door kept closed most of the time? If it is, there is probably a lot that can be done with the shell of the building to make it more efficient. With that done, or even just designed, you can get an idea of how much heat you'll really need. Do take internal gains into account!
Yours, Larry

Kaos

A roof top packaged heat pump might be the simplest option. It will use a heck of a lot less electricity than a resistance boiler and gets you AC for free. The big names (Daikin, LG, Carrier, York) all make a version in their light commercial product lines, you'll have to see which one is locally available and works better in cold weather. Probably one unit for the shop and one for the office to separate air to keep dust out.

klmkurt

Thanks, I have been thinking about this as well. Simple propane unit heaters were desirable and a sawdust furnace becasue…sawdust. Propane is not an option, unfortunately.

Heat pump being more costly would then do away with the sawdust system or maybe delay it. Sawdust systems are also not inexpensive.

Bill_Kitsch69

Nothing like supplying almost no relevant information in these 'challenges' … So here's what I am presuming is a granary building: http://www.bellinghamdowntownwaterfront.com/granary-building So put in Hi SEER ductless split heat pumps and call it a day. Depending on ceiling height, building usage, etc you may wish to add low speed commercial ceiling fans.

Now, can we have some realistic challenges please?

pecmsg

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1830065#Comment_1830065

No dust collection is that good. Forget forced air unless a seriously oversized filter system is installed.

In floor radiant

Hot water coils with drains so the coils can be washed periodically.

pecmsg

are you using CDC Machines for cutting? The chillers should go outdoors.

Intplm.

"No room for proper propane tank set back." Have you checked with the town? You might be able to use propane as is. If not, you can apply for a set back variance.

If not, electric is in your future and that can be a very big undertaking.Look to see if a variance is worth the trouble.

TheUpNorthState88

So looking at the layout and of course height of the ceilings would probably be, hydronics would absolutely be your best bet for even heating of the facility which you could zone out for the different areas and utilize baseboard convectors and even some cast iron rads that you could “rescue” from architectural savage or just a private seller who is switching heating systems. Of course, if that’s too time consuming, you can buy the new panel style radiators for the offices, and breakroom areas.

All this can be controlled by a commercial electric boiler. I’m unsure of what the BTU calculation is for the building but this boiler here has some options to go even bigger. I’m excited to see which route you end up going.

I work in a hospital and we have four massive boilers that serve the entire complex. I’ll even include a few pictures of the boiler room because it looked so cool but you won’t need nothing that scale lol. They were doing some service in there when I was passing through.

https://www.ecomfort.com/Electro-Industries-EB-NB-120-480/p18330.html

Cucumberer

Perhaps use of the silos is possible? Consider this system for future expansion of your empire and start selling energy…Green loving Bellingham might be able to be convinced to help with funding?
https://polarnightenergy.com/sand-battery/

random12345

Burning wood causes a hell of a lot of air pollution for your neighbors. Way more than most people realize. Thousands of times more particulate matter than natural gas, plus all the other nasties like benzopyrene and formaldehyde. Even if this is located in the middle of nowhere, all that pollution has to go somewhere and will travel for thousands of miles potentially. Any other option besides wood is worth considering.