swapped out taco 007 for basement hot water loop off a steam boiler same results!

skimmer

ok i had to use blue painters tape (saw that tip on youtube) as the black tape was too shiny I guess to get a good read

Dropped the aquastat to 185

Im getting around 176 at the start of the loop and around 164 at the end! After trying different angles with the laser gun.

My next test will be with the digital food thermometer, the one you stick into a chicken and it gives you a read!

Even with the blue tape it depends on the angle of the laser to get a good fix. The numbers above are the high numbers. Its a cheapo laser temp tool, proabably 10 bucks on ebay a decade ago. I was getting bouncing readings until i found the sweet spot.

So these clamp on thermometers are garbage. I read the amazon reviews, some complaints that they are only good to 150, about 40 degrees off, while others say they are great.

So LRCCBJ you are right, the strap on thermometers arent so great after all

hot_rod

These are good gauges to use. It reads both temperature and ∆T. Strap on with insulation over the probes.

Many VOM meters have temperature reading attachments also. Thermistor type probes are very accurate.

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LRCCBJ

So LRCCBJ you are right, the strap on thermometers arent so great after all

Well done. The laser thermometer agrees with the aquastat within 10F or so. Close enough. Now raise the aquastat back to 200F and you should get the heat desired from the baseboards (to solve your original issue which is NOT based upon insufficient flow!)

jesmed1

" these clamp on thermometers are garbage. I read the amazon reviews, some complaints that they are only good to 150, about 40 degrees off, while others say they are great.

So LRCCBJ you are right, the strap on thermometers arent so great after all…"

Just a note on those strap-on thermometers. I have 4 of the exact same thermometers in your photos, and in their defense, mine are quite accurate, within 1-2 degrees of readings obtained with a $300 thermal imager aimed at black tape on the same pipe.

Before installing the strap-ons, I applied some thermal heat sink paste as recommended to improve the thermal contact with the pipe. And there is an adjustment screw on the back for calibration. Some of my 4 strap-ons didn't need calibration, but some did.

Apparently some people have had bad experiences with these. Quality control may be uneven. The 4 that I got were fine. But for the record, by using thermal paste and then checking cal with a thermal imager, it is possible to get surprisingly good accuracy with these strap-on dial thermometers.

LRCCBJ

Apparently some people have had bad experiences with these. Quality control may be uneven. The 4 that I got were fine. But for the record, by using thermal paste and then checking cal with a thermal imager, it is possible to get surprisingly good accuracy with these strap-on dial thermometers.

Personally, if I am planning any residential system, I put a 1x1x1/2 (or 1.5 x 1.5 x 1/2 depending) Female NPT Tee wherever I might want a gauge. This can also be easily done whenever the system needs to be drained for any reason. At that point, it is also a benefit to put isolation valves on both the supply and return to and from each zone so you can make changes near the boiler with ease.

skimmer

well it turns out the fins haven’t been cleaned in years and the louvred “strips” are in the closed position. The rads get hot but the boiler continues to run as the tstat isn’t being satisfied.

I have to get in there and open all the covers clean the fins and pivot the rad covers in the open position and see if that makes a difference

LRCCBJ

The rads get hot but the boiler continues to run as the tstat isn’t being satisfied.

If the rads get hot and the boiler continues to run, the system has an output that is sufficiently high that the boiler is not reaching high limit. This means the rads are doing exactly what they are designed to do. Cleaning them to attempt to get 10% more output won't allow the boiler to shut down………..in fact quite the opposite.

When the space reaches the setpoint on the stat (which is will now do much faster than before) the boiler will shutdown. Notice that it will, apparently, not cycle before reaching the setpoint.

skimmer

well it doesn’t seem to shut down. It seems to run constantly. The 007 runs continuously and the boiler comes on to reheat the water back up to 185 (I’m guessing) and then shut down all the while the 007 keeps running from what I have observed at the boiler.

I have to get into the space to observe at the radiators and thermostat. I’m told the Tstat is set to 70/72 max. And the space is not insulated either so that may contribute to the problem.

And I’m pretty sure the rads are in the closed position too so the heat is being restricted .

are you suggesting I lower the aquastat or raise the aquastat?

LRCCBJ

And I’m pretty sure the rads are in the closed position too so the heat is being restricted .

Obviously, you want the rads in the open position! However your DT indicates that the zone is dissipating the energy.

You have asked a loaded question.

If you raise the aquastat, you send hotter water to the rads………..they have greater output………..and the 'stat is satisfied faster.

If you lower the aquastat, you operate at a more efficient temperature (lower is always bettter), but the space takes much longer to reach the 'stat setpoint and the boiler cycles during this entire period.

There is no consensus on the above. Some believe cycling is terrible. Some believe the higher water temperature is not efficient and is consuming more fuel than required (this is basically true).

The final solution is a buffer tank that allows significantly more water in the system thereby minimizing the cycling at lower water temperatures. However, you have to maintain the tank temperature and the tank is losing energy to the space where it lives 24/7.

skimmer

another thing I noticed is that the first slant fin radiator/convector located in garage gets hot but it seems to be “weak”. Meaning compared to my steam radiators where I can feel a strong rising heat flow I can barely feel a heat flow rising up.

I have foam insulation on all the copper in the garage before and after this first radiator. This hand test was done after the new 007 was installed.

Perhaps I need to flush the system again with street water pressure and isolation valves as maybe there is air in the pipes. The last time I did a flush like was a few weeks ago when the old corroded taco was in place and I noticed the boiler constantly running for the basement heat

Joe Mattiello

you can qualify the pump with an amp meter. You should be at nameplate amp if the pump is running at full compliment. If it less than nameplate amp, you’re likely airbound as others suggested and you need to purge air out. For additional support call Taco tech support at 401-942-8000 and ask for tech support.

Jamie Hall

Not too surprising that a hot water fed radiator of baseboard will feel "weak" compared to a steam radiator — the heat output of any radiation falls off as the temperature of the radiator falls…

EBEBRATT-Ed

Making sure the fin tube radiation is clean and that the dampers are open should have been the first thing you should have done. Likely that the circulator did not need to be changed

skimmer

yeah probably not. I relied on the strap on thermostat. At first I only put one on the return side where it was showing a max of about 151-155 degree's and assumed it was a poor flow rate.

Picked it up for less then $100 so it wasn’t so bad of a lesson learned.

skimmer

So it turned out the longest convector rad in the room maybe 16 feet ( 2 8 footers) idk I didn’t measure - was almost completely closed. While the other shorter rad was open there is a bed right up against it.

Opened the louvred part and got a slow warmth air rising. Should improve things.

When stat was left at 70/72 it never sastisified (stat on opposite of room away from rads). And the boiler would cycle for hours while 007 ran continuously