Radiant Copper Heating

tanis

Hi There, hoping someone can help me out.

I recently purchased a 1940's two storey home that has alot of professionals stumped. They were doing some work in my ceiling and exposed my radiant copper heating system. The copper pipes are secured to my upstairs floor board with a metal clip, and then covered with some sort of metal looking material, along with concrete, and then plaster.

They are now working to cover it up, and are claiming they can just cover with dry wall. Is there a recommended approach to redoing this ceiling? I want to maintain this heating system, it heats my house so well and is financially very reasonable.

Thanks!

Alan (California Radiant) Forbes

Can you show us a picture?

mattmia2

Does it heat the ceiling or the floor? I bet that isn't concrete but base coat plaster which is mixed with sand or vermiculite.

hot_rod

Sounds like a radiant ceiling. Must be a boiler somewhere. Look for a pressure gauge.

If they put a nail or screw in to the copper, you're done

delcrossv

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1820961#Comment_1820961

Bingo. Find a plasterer,not a drywaller.

tanis

Photo attached! This is a photo of my ceiling with the pipes exposed. Sadly there was a leak and insurance is coering hte repair. I mentioned a plasterer, but they said drywall would do, any recommendations?

DCContrarian

I'd run strapping — 1x3 or 1x4 boards — perpendicular to the joists on 16" centers and then drywall. This is how drywall is normally done in New England, where I'm from. At the end of the loop the strapping has to be short to let the loop pass, run a piece of strapping perpendicular to the others along the last joist. When the ceiling is strapped like that you almost have to be trying to hit anything other than the strapping with the drywall screws.

Test for leaks first!

hot_rod

with the lath and plaster method, the plaster is actually in contact with the tube, so you have excellent conduction transfer

You will lose some transfer performance if the tube doesn’t contact the sheet rock very well. You have a joist bay heating system.

Tell the insurance company you want it replaced with plaster😉

IF you can even find a skilled plaster craftsman anymore!

delcrossv

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1821540#Comment_1821540

Agreed. If they switch to drywall they'd have to add aluminum plates to make up for the lack of conduction, then might as well put in a whole pex radiant panel.

Jamie Hall

Plasterers do exist. They're almost as hard to find as good steam heat experts…

ScottSecor

On all of the older radiant ceilings I have encountered, they all had metal (steel I think) lathe and the tubing was embedded in plaster. I agree sheetrock will work, but it may not have the same heat output as the old pilaster.

I have worked on numerous very expensive brownstone homes in the past. Most of the homes were very large and in wealthier areas of Hoboken and Manhattan. There are still a few contractors that specialize in plaster walls, and ceilings in business today. Unfortunately, I suspect a true plaster craftsman will charge roughly ten times what a handyman that can throw up sheetrock would charge.

EBEBRATT-Ed

I agree if the ceiling is not plastered it will not heat as is.

You got a few choices:

Abandon it and install radiation like baseboard or radiation

Install it as a new radiant ceiling would now be installed.

The tubing has to be imbedded in plaster to make it work. If you drywall it you will need reflectors

Possibly you could abandon it and install a radiant floor depending on your floor covering

mattmia2

I hope someone tested that rocklath for asbestos before tearing in to it. That is rockltah plaster, it is a sheet of gypsum board with a layer of base coat plaster over it and a coat of finish coat plaster over that. Frequently various versions of the materials used in the 3 layers contained asbestos.

hot_rod

You mentioned a metal screen?

here are a couple examples of metal plaster lath. It comes in fiberglass now, which may be easier to use overhead.
Looking at the tube it looks like some of the scratch coat embedded the tube.

Be aware one leak can lead to more leaks. At some point think about a plan b if you have to abandon the entire system

IMG_0839.jpeg

mattmia2

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1821648#Comment_1821648

It is rocklath, you can see some bits of the paper facings at the edge of the hole. I suspect they cut or bought the rocklath panels to fit between the tubes.

Alan (California Radiant) Forbes

…………..and put some insulation in those joist bays.

If that's 1/2" copper, you could think about Ultra-Fin and for sure, plenty of insulation.