Burnham V3

BRader

Hi All. I know this is a long shot, but would anyone happen to have a scan and/or pdf of an installation manual for a Burnham V3? I have a customer with a 5 section steam V3 that needs some love. I wanted to verify a few things from the manual before I give them a quote. It's likely going to be replaced in the near future, but if we can get it working a little better until that can happen, it would be great. Thanks!

Intplm.

Maybe this can help? https://www.manualslib.com/manual/756076/Burnham-Series-3.html

BRader

@Intplm. Thanks, but this thing is much older. I think it was installed about 1982. I appreciate you looking, though.

BRader

Photo for reference

neilc

what are you questioning,

older and primative,

maybe someone here can wing it

BRader

@neilc Max firing rate. It's a five section and the tag says 2.25 gph. That makes it put out 763 sq ft of steam. They actually have 1028 EDR. I was trying to find out if it could be over-fired slightly to produce more steam. From what I understand, it's never really worked properly. Like I said, we're planning a replacement, but need to get it working better in the interim.

neilc

yeah,

I didn't say I could be that someone to wing it , , ,

guys? Girls?

neilc

fat thumbing it , , ,

EBEBRATT-Ed

I wouldn't overfire especially a boiler that old. You might be replacing it sooner than later

ethicalpaul

That makes it put out 763 sq ft of steam. They actually have 1028 EDR

With all those insulated pipes, I daresay it should be able to perform quite well providing 763 sq ft into 1028 ft of radiation, except maybe on the very coldest days of the year.

If it is performing badly all the time, you can likely improve that dramatically.

How is the main venting? how are the radiator vents (if it's one-pipe)? Can you turn off some radiators that are in lesser-used areas of the house if necessary?

The near-boiler piping to the old massive header is pretty good, so that's going for you.

Does it have a wet return, or is it a counter-flow?

BRader

@ethicalpaul The venting is an issue and is in the process of being corrected. It does seem to have an issue pushing the air out of the radiators in the farthest reaches of the third floor. It is wet return.

ethicalpaul

get the main venting right first, that’s key.

Then you might have to slow the faster-to-heat radiators so they don’t “steal” all the steam from the distant ones

The Steam Whisperer

Is this one pipe or two pipe? Most two pipe systems can be orificed down to a much smaller boiler capacity since the radiation is usually about 60% oversized.

BRader

@The Steam Whisperer this is a one-pipe system in a fairly large house.

The Steam Whisperer

Main venting, pipe insulation and then slow adjustable vents will get you a long way in the right direction. For radiator vents we still prefer Ventrite #1 adjustables ( or under the Tunstall name). For cheap vents Maid o Mist. in the 4, 5 and 6 sizes If you do Gortons, same size limits…. C and D are just too big for any radiator except monsters like you find in churches.

BRader

@The Steam Whisperer Thanks for the advice. I was looking at Maid O Mist or Gorton vents for this project because of the various sizes available. There are a couple of monster radiators in this place. It's a huge Victorian. They're actually the ones we are having trouble with heating, so we may go to bigger vents on them like the C or D.

Steamhead

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1810766#Comment_1810766

Are those monster radiators near the ends of the steam mains?

ethicalpaul

It's a lot easier to slow down the fast radiators than to try to overtake them by speeding up the slow radiators.

Also there can be radiator supply pipe pitch issues that trap water and kill or prevent the steam. Do you ever hear knocking, rumbling, or gurgling at or near those radiators?

BRader

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1810777#Comment_1810777

They are, actually. The riser for them is, anyway.

BRader

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1810779#Comment_1810779

Pipe pitch doesn't seem to be an issue, at least in what is accessible from the basement. None of the radiators are really fast at heating. I'm going back soon to correct the main venting. As it is, it took from cold about 40 minutes to get steam to the ends of the mains (40 ft for the farthest one) and over an hour for most of the radiators to start to get steam.

Steamhead

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1810791#Comment_1810791

Then the main venting is inadequate. How long are your steam mains, and what pipe size?

The Steam Whisperer

Looks like the mains are insulated… that would also greatly slow the warm up time. Have you checked to see how long it takes steam to reach the ends of the mains on a warm start? That will really tell you quickly how undersized the steam main vents may be….and they are almost always undersized in anything larger than a very small home.

ethicalpaul

Looks like the mains are insulated… that would also greatly slow the warm up time.

Sorry to interrupt, but why would insulation on the mains greatly slow the warm up time?

ChrisJ

As everyone else has said, vent those mains.

Slow radiators that are stealing steam down and increase venting on those which don't want to vent.

It can be made to work, probably better than most systems out there if you put the time into it.

ethicalpaul

At the risk of too much information hitting you, set this one aside for possible future thinking…

Pipe pitch doesn't seem to be an issue, at least in what is accessible from the basement.

Another place where pitch can come into place is this: typically, in the floor near the radiator there will be a short horizontal run of pipe just before it turns upward at the radiator valve that can settle and cause a place for water to sit. If you hear gurgling near the radiator, or if it takes a VERY long call for heat before any heat gets to that radiator regardless of venting, that may be the cause.

Steamhead

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1810801#Comment_1810801

Probably a typo- he would have wanted to say "Looks like the mains are not insulated"- right, @The Steam Whisperer ?

The Steam Whisperer

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1810801#Comment_1810801

I misspoke…Uninsulated mains would greatly slow the warm up time.

BRader

Thanks for all the comments. The mains are insulated with the mineral that we dare not speak its name. They are 3" and are about 40' long. The end of the longest one has a mostly non-functional, ancient Hoffman 75. The end of the other big one has a Hoffman 41, which is again non-functional. The plan is currently to replace each of them with 3 Gorton #1s. We are also planning to add venting to a couple of the smaller mains that currently have none. The radiators vents are going to be replaced and we looked at balancing them by using different capacity vents. We did an EDR study of all the radiation and determined the distance from the boiler. We used the thermal camera and operated the system to find out which radiators heated and which didn't and which ones heated fully vs only partially. I think we have some solid info to go on. Ultimately they're going to end up replacing the boiler, but if we can get the system issues straightened out first, that would be the best.

Steamhead

@BRader , I'd just put a Gorton #2 on each main. It's less complicated and might be a bit cheaper.

AJCimino

Not a pdf of the installation manual, but catalogue info on the V-3 can be found in the boiler catalogue https://heatinghelp.com/systems-help-center/burnham-america/ .

Steamhead

That would have been the very early 80s. The "America" meant that these boiler models were acquired from American-Standard, around 1969-70. Also, flame-retention burners were still optional on some models!

BRader

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1810884#Comment_1810884

Thank you