Help Identifying Steam Main Vent

gt873923

Can anyone please help identify the main vent in the picture below? There are 2 additional vent holes on the other sides the same as in the picture.

For extra context, I'm in the process of replacing the main venting on my single pipe steam. This all after a boiler replacement and new radiator vents last year.

Currently I have two mains (53' of 2" and 34' (8' of 2" and 26' of 2-1/2")). The long main will get a combination of Gorton #1, #2s or MOM #1 to replace an existing big mouth which was spitting/not closing.

The short main has the vent pictured behind drywall so I'm trying to assess whether to remove it or leave in place to get reasonable venting across both mains.

Mad Dog_2

That's a crappy old Somethin.or other. You wanna go with Gorton or Hoffman. Mad Dog 🐕

gt873923

😄 Thanks @Mad Dog_2

gt873923

I'm probably going to do a Gorton #2 on the short main and then 2 x Gorton #2s on the long and see how that does.

Steamhead

It's a Dole #4- pathetically inadequate for the main it's on. Use a Gorton #2 at the end of each main.

Neild5

As an FYI, the Big Mouths are rebuildable, there is one oring. I replaced i

them once 6 years ago and they all have been fine since. I have 10 Big Mouths on our system.

gt873923

@Steamhead thanks, good to know what it is. Will replace with a Gorton #2. Do you think one will be enough for each main or should I go with 2 on the longer one? I also have a MOM #1 I can add on as well.

@Neild5 thanks! The folks at B&J actually sent me a new internal which I've installed (o-ring actually looked OK). I may test out the big mouth again but just wanted a backup in case the new internal doesn't fix things.

Steamhead

@gt873923 , start with one #2 on each main. You want the mains to vent to the end in a minute or two, measured from the time steam starts entering the mains at the boiler end.

If they vent unevenly, add the M-o-M to the slower one. If that doesn't do it, add the Big Mouth.

Once this is done, every radiator takeoff will get steam about the same time, helping to bring the system into balance and reducing the boiler's running time.

gt873923

@Steamhead got it, thanks again!

gt873923

Progress has been made. Got the dole #4 off the short main. Trouble now is working out how to get the necessary main vents on due to a lack of headroom and the old coupling and close nipple not budging. As it stands I'm considering a few options:

1. Fight the old nipple and couple off then install a Gorton 2 straight up behind the drywall. This should give me the extra inch a half I need for the Gorton.
2. My preferred. As 1 but install a street 90, then 12 inch nipple outside the drywall then a 90 before the Gorton.
3. Some kind of arrangement off the existing stuck nipple behind the drywall (with access panel) and using more smaller vents like 3 Gorton/MOM #1s.

I've hit the old coupling with PB Blaster and a right angle pipe wrench to no avail. A cheater bar would be my next step. I'm reluctant to try heat as there's a whole bunch of wood and Plywood surrounding the pipe.

mattmia2

Stick a rod or a small pipe inside the fitting before you really wrench on it so you don't collapse it

Steamhead

If that coupling doesn't come off, use option 2. Make sure the 12" nipple pitches back toward the steam main.

ethicalpaul

I sure do hate finished basements

mattmia2

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1807947#Comment_1807947

Don't street 60 fittings also exist?

gt873923

Thanks all, will keep you posted on how I get on. I can get a recip with a carbide blade in there so that's an option as well but some care needed to not make things worse.

Steamhead

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1807949#Comment_1807949

Only in DWV piping.

mattmia2

You could also use 2 street 90's at each end and make swing joints to pitch the lateral

gt873923

I've been slowly attacking this remaining nipple but run into some issues. My cutting of the nipple in order to free it up has left me with a broken nipple as I didn't manage to cut far enough down the fitting in my various attempts. I've tried hacksaws, oscillating tool, cold chisel, nipple extractors to no luck. I'm only working with 8 inches of vertical room and about 1-1/2 inches horizontal to the foundation wall so tricky getting even a mini hacksaw in there.

Trying to work out what my options are here as cold weather gets closer. I'm thinking of:

1. Continue hammering away at the broken nipple in the hopes it comes free.
2. Plug the hole somehow then drill and tap a 1/4 hole further back on the main for a new place for the main. See pictures for current config.

Open to any ideas though on alternatives!

Steamhead

You might be able to tap the inside of that broken-off pipe for 1/2" pipe thread. It'll work just like a face bushing.

mattmia2

cut 2 little slits in the nipple almost to the threads then pop out the piece in between with a small chisel. Might use a reciprocating saw blade in a mini hacksaw frame, there are some that are very narrow.

use some fittings to get the vent outside the wall so someone can find it later. if you can't screw something in there you will probably need to make a bigger hole and cut out that fitting and the riser and replace it. some of that being copper wouldn't be terrible.

gt873923

@Steamhead thanks, that's a good idea. I'll give that a try and see how I get on.

gt873923

@mattmia2 sorry missed your comment earlier. I do have a slim hacksaw that can take a recip saw blade and can fit in the space. I wasn't able to fit my amped carbide recip blade in the hole though (too wide). Are you suggesting there might be a slimmer recip blade I could use?

Might give that a go if tapping the threads doesn't work. Anything to avoid a much larger pipe replacement would be great!

mattmia2

There are blades like this which are thinner. Probably some that are even thinner but I was having trouble finding them

https://www.milwaukeetool.com/Products/49-00-5324

Waher

Why has a nipple extractor failed?

gt873923

@Waher It seemed like once the extractor got tight in the nipple and I started applying torque it would eventually slip and loosen. Not 100% sure it the extractor just wasn't biting or whether the nipple is that stuck

gt873923

Some better news. I was able tonight to use a pipe tap and tap some 1/2 threads and dry fit a street 90.

A couple of questions:

1. Once I use some Teflon to fit it properly what's the best way to test for air leaks around the fitting? Soap bubbles?
2. Any issues if I have a horizontal run of pipes before the vent? Ideally I'd like to come out the wall take a 90 to go under the main (no change in pitch) then attach the vent so I'm away from the wall next to the main. Drew some lines on a picture but hard to represent.
   

mattmia2

I'd probably use a 45 or 30 or 60 or use 2 street 90's at the larger fitting and make a swing joint to give it a little slope. if it is flat and water collects that can get forced out the vent. a longish riser to the vent will help keep that water from being forced out the vent too and may be sufficient.

a mirror is good to look for steam leaks

gt873923

Great, thanks again!

gt873923

Thanks again for all the help, I was able to get three #1s installed off the shorter main coming back through the drywall.

I've turned my attention to some rad vents which I replaced last year after the boiler replacement but have since got stuck closed so rads weren't heating. The rads heat when I replace them but wanted to see if there is as anything else I could be doing to prevent this going forward?

Photos of the convectors after new MoM with extra 2-1/2" nipple and the black flakes coming out the old vents:

ethicalpaul

I like how you have it set up. I think that surging is the vent-killer (when the boiler throws its water up to the mains and radiators).

If that one fails, try a Gorton, but I do like MoM

gt873923

Thanks Paul!

I like the MoM too as it's easier to adjust the sizes for balancing. Once I get that settled I will probably switch to the Gortons if they block down the line.

I've just skimmed the (1 year old) boiler again so hopefully that helps. Anything else I should do to help with the surging?

ethicalpaul

water quality is like 95% of surging. We’ve all seen boilers do fine even without any header at all

gt873923

Great, thanks again! I've got a drop header on the new boiler so hopefully that helps as well compared to the old copper no header setup from before.