Two pipe steam radiator with vent AND trap?

ajpal

We’ve been told these are two pipe steam radiators. Why the vent? Is that not a trap on the outlet pipe? All 9 of the radiators in our 1901 house are configured like this, not just one or two.

Is this type of radiator replaceable? Or interchangeable with a steam radiator with a trap and/or that inputs at the top instead of the bottom?

Asking because a couple of them have cracked. How do we keep replacements from cracking? We heard banging and water sloshing that sounded like it was coming from the cracked ones before they started leaking.

It looks like there are no contractors on your list in northern Indiana to help us?

Steamhead

That's definitely wrong. But I'd want to see the rest of the system before suggesting a fix.

Water hammer could cause a radiator to crack if it was bad enough. You should be able to find replacement rads at architectural salvage places.

Where in IN are you? See if @The Steam Whisperer would be willing to come out there.

ajpal

I’ve seen in this forum where someone mistakenly adds vents to one or two of their two-pipe radiators, but every single radiator in the house?!! Say it ain’t so. 😩

I’m not seeing comments on how people are fixing this mistake. Replace the trap and plug the vent somehow? Because replacing all 9 radiators is cost prohibitive, even refurbished.

Especially considering our Weil boiler likely has issues as well. A broken vent and improper piping. It should have a header between the two outlets on top?

We’re about two hours from a Chicago. I will contact the Steam Whisperer first thing Monday morning. Thanks.

Jamie Hall

I must say it looks as though someone who installed the system in the first place really didn't understand steam…

Now before I comment on the radiators, there is one item in the boiler pictures which is really scary: the pressure relief valve on the boiler is almost unbelievably dangerous. The outlet is pointed right straight out at the person who is trying to control the boiler!!!! Ye gods — what was someone thinking? That valve should be turned 90 degrees and pipe over to the side of the boiler and down to about six inches above the floor.

Now on the radiators. There is no particular harm to having a vent on a two pipe steam radiator (provided it's not a vapour system). There is no real need for it, either, if things are piped properly and working. However, the only way water can be left in such a radiator is if the trap is failed closed — and that's not an uncommon reason for people to put on a vent, either. So… perhaps that is what we have here. On the other hand… maybe someone just didn't know. Those radiators are piped like one pipe steam on the inlet side…

Steamhead

There should also be an air vent somewhere in the return piping near the boiler. The air from the radiators leaves through the trap along with the condensate (water) and they both travel through the return lines to the boiler room. At that point, the air is vented and the water drops back to the boiler. See if you can find the vent.

STEAM DOCTOR

Screenshot_2024-08-04-09-43-18-49_40deb401b9ffe8e1df2f1cc5ba480b12.jpg

What is that circled thing? Air vent???

Steamhead

Might be a vacuum breaker……..

ajpal

condensate return piping

ajpal

The circled thing and diagram from boiler manual

Jamie Hall

The more I look at these pictures the worse it gets.

I have no idea what the circled thing in the screenshot is. Not a clue.

The near boiler piping has almost nothing right about it, except that it does seem to be threaded together. Well, and it does have a mercury switch type pressure control, which is something, which may even be set reasonably well (if it's working).

You really need to get someone who knows, or who is willing to learn about, steam to go over the whole thing and put it to rights. It can be done, but there is going to be a fair amount of new piping in the vicinity of the boiler. Did you get in touch with @The Steam Whisperer ?

Steamhead

The circled thing is an old safety valve. Fortunately there is a newer one on top of the boiler, but as @Jamie Hall says, it needs to be piped down close to the floor.

Follow the return piping up into the ceiling and see if there is a vent there.

ajpal

Filled out contact form for the Steam Whisperer because I thought I’d be able to attach pictures, which I couldn’t. I’ll probably get pushy and call if don’t hear back in 48 hours.

I don’t see anything on return piping or other piping that looks like a main vent as pictured in We Got Steam. But there are many things about our system that don’t look like the book, or even the boiler manual.

So I think the contractor (that backed out on us) that told us a vent near the boiler was broken was referring to the ventilation that goes to the chimney.

Also the reason I posted on this board trying to figure out our radiators is because the company we are looking at buying refurbished radiators from said this about our radiators:

…It is a two piped steam and it is piped incorrectly. With this additional information, he will need to repipe the radiators so there is an entrance at the top and exit for the condensation at the bottom. Your system also does not have steam traps, which are required for your two-pipe steam system to work properly. 

Jamie Hall

Oh mercy. Well, two pipe steam is usually piped with the inlet high and the outlet low, but it will work with the inlet low as well.

Further, if your photo is correct, you do have traps on your radiators. Now, whether there the elements inside are there I wouldn't know from the photo — but the trap body surely is there.

I have no idea what the refurbished radiator company is talking about. Except trying to make a sale…

Steamhead

@ajpal , this wouldn't be the first time I've run into a Vapor system where someone removed the vent on the dry (overhead) return, so air could not vent from the return like it's supposed to.