Impossible task - replacing Taco circulating pump on Burnham Revolution boiler.

luma

Hello All,

I hope someone could advise me on how I can replace a Taco circulating pump. One would think that this should be a straightforward process, unfortunately in my case, the flanges where the pump should go are so close apart that the replacement pump does not go. I've attempted to spread them flanges apart (lower image) by using a wedge, I don't want to put too much pressure on them so I won't break the pipes. I was able to force the pump in about 3/4 of the way, however once I've done that, the O gasket rings came out from their channels because they are elevated above pump's flange.

Thank you

gyrfalcon

get a pump that is the exact measurement

kcopp

Will the old circ go back in w/ new gaskets?

It may be easier to just replace the cartridge.

luma

gyrfalcon - I did not realize that these pumps might have slightly different sizes. I need to look into this.

kcopp - I haven't attempted to replace the cartridge in the original pump, I guess will attempt to get this done shortly.

Thank you both for your response!

LRCCBJ

If you were able to remove the existing pump, you might have observed the upper piping dropped slightly once the pump cleared the flanges. This would indicate the pump is supporting all the piping above it. While the pump doesn't care about that, you have found the unfortunate situation with such a design. To install the new pump, you'll need to lift the upper piping sufficiently to slide the pump in place without knocking the seals out of position. You cannot do this by yourself. If it were me, I'd get a 2x4 and a wedge and fully support and lift the upper piping via this approach, Then slide the pump into place, secure the cap screws and nuts lightly, and then lower the upper piping by removing the wedge. If you have it, a small hydraulic jack will be a definite plus.

One caveat: I would limit the lift to not more than 3/8". If more is necessary, there is another variable that is currently unreported.

ratio

You might be able to change out the lower pipe nipple for something a touch shorter. Dope & tape the threads up good but don't crank the flange down as tight as you can get it right out of the gate. You can tighten it up more if needed, but you can't loosen it without reapplying dope/tape.

luma

LRCCBJ - images below reflect my situation better, when I've removed the original pump, the upper pipe dropped slightly, not much though. I think when I've used a wedge (a piece of 2x4) , I was able to elevate the upper pipe maybe 1/4" if that, 3/8" would definitely give me enough clearance to slide the pump in, however I'm afraid I'm going to mess up all pipes leading to the pump.

kcopp - I've tried the original pump with the new O rings, unfortunately the same outcome, the pump won't cooperate.

I've called around to check how much I would be charged if I were to hire someone to get this done. I was shocked - anywhere between $1k to $1,500! Practically half price of a brand new boiler.

luma

ratio - It's a great thought, however I'm afraid to go on yet another adventure by tinkering with the lower pipe.

LRCCBJ

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1807387#Comment_1807387

Follow my original suggestion. The piping will take the stress of 3/8" deflection. If you think about it, it was at that position prior to you removing the pump. Don't force it more than you must. If you use a hydraulic jack, you can very carefully control the lift so that you get the minimum amount necessary to slide the pump into place. Additionally, the jack will remain in perfect position for the entire time you need to screw with the pump.

hot_rod

are the new and old pump exactly the same model? Often you just change the motor and leave the old body in place

What was wrong with the old one? I think a tekmar VS control runs it for temperature protection on that boiler

LRCCBJ

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1807394#Comment_1807394

All the -00 series pumps have the exact same flange to flange spacing. It's impossible to screw that up even with a slightly different pump.

EBEBRATT-Ed

measure both pumps flange-flange. If they are the same wedge it apart and go for it. You only have to spread the pipes 1/8-1/4" to get the pump and or gaskets in you should be fine. make sure to get the arrow on the pump going the right way so you don't have to do it twice.

MikeGordon

Hello luma;

Please see this diagram'

MikeGordon

Hello luma;

Please see the diagram below from Page 82 of the Revolution manual. Link to manual is here:

https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/catsy.782/Revolution+IO+Manual.pdf

Loosen the four (4) bolts, noted a "1Q" on the diagram, that fasten the internal water manifold to the two boiler heat exchanger connections. This will provide more than enough slack to fit in the new Taco 007 circulator in. Position the new circulator and hand tighten the circulator bolts. Fully retighten the bolts on the internal water manifold. Then go back and fully retighten the circulator bolts.

There is a chance that the gaskets between the internal water manifold and the flanges to the heat exchanger connections will not reseal however. If this happens, new gaskets will be needed. They appear to be still readily available. See link here:

https://www.supplyhouse.com/Burnham-8206056-Flange-Gasket-Manifold-Water-for-Revolution-Boilers

For future consideration, if the pump fails again, it's a lot quicker (and less frustrating) to just change the circulator cartridge than the entire circulator. The Revolution uses a completely standard Taco 007 cartridge.

Hope this helps.

Mike Gordon

luma

MikeGordon - sorry, I saw your post a bit late.

I've been going nuts trying to solve this puzzle! I appreciate everyone's input, but I went with LRCCBJ recommendation. I went to a store to get myself a bottle jack, than, because of space limitations of the circulating pump housing and position of the boiler itself, I had to build a wooden platform (inside the boiler right under where the pump should go) to insure that the bottle jack will be able to reach the upper pipe I needed to elevate. Well, now I ran into a problem of the jack being in the way of the pump. So I wind up taking apart the pump, raising the upper pipe high enough for the pump to slide right in, it did!!!, tightening all of the pump's flange bolts and re-assembling pump back together. I'm exhausted, I'll wait for the second fun part of the process till tomorrow. That will be the moment of truth, I hope I'll get this thing to work again!

Thank you very much all, I'll provide a status update at some point tomorrow.

STEAM DOCTOR

In the past, I have used flat gaskets in these situations. Less likely to curl up. Taco does not recommend the flat gaskets but they work.

luma

status update - so this afternoon, I've retightened all of the bolts on the pump, connected power, turned the water supply on and got a water leak through boiler's T&P relief valve. Got a replacement, changed it and turned the boiler on. After a couple of hours I finally got hot water - I have 80 g indirect water heater. In the meanwhile the boiler was running as it was before all of these issues, no water leaks anywhere. About an hour ago I went to take a shower, and after went to check on the boiler. I did not like what I saw, water was leaking through the lower gasket of the newly installed pump, so basically I'm back to square one. The boiler is off, tomorrow I need to replace the lower O ring of the circulating pump. What a pain!

PC7060

Uh! That is aggravating! did you install new o-rings with the pump?

It may be possible to use the flat gaskets @STEAM DOCTOR mentioned

luma

yes, I've used the o-rings that came with the pump. Obviously I'm not a plumber, and I absolutely do not want to minimize anyone knowledge and experience, but the other day I was holding these flat gaskets in my hands and they might work, however if anyone looks at the design of the Taco flange pump, the groove in the flange speaks for itself, they were meant to be used with these o-rings. The challenge I'm facing is that every time I need to remove the pump from where it is seated, when I need to put this thing back in, I'm using force to spread the pipes, so the pump can slide the right in. I think I can do it so many times before something else breaks.

HomerJSmith

Look, you are not going to break the pipes. Use a jack or 2X4 stud to raise the pipe to give you the needed room to install the new pump. You can smear the gaskets with Napa auto parts Sil/Glide silicone grease to help slide the pump in. Sil/Glide silicone grease won't hurt the rubber. These pumps are standard sizes.

luma

Thank you HomerJSmith, tomorrow I'll give it a try.

luma

for those who might be reading this, I came across interesting discussion on the use of o-rings vs flat flange gaskets -

bob_44 Member Posts: 112
June 2005
Ring Gaskets

Most of the ring gasket that I have seen are improperly installed. It seems everyone THINKS the flange bolts should be drawn down tight, WRONG! One of the main design features of the thick square section ring gasket is vibration isolation, if you crank it down until the flanges almost touch you loose that function plus you distort the heck out of the gasket. It is more likely to leak tight than just snugged up. Of course I'm assuming it is properly piped and supported. There should never be any strain or load on a pump and of course the flanges have to be square with the pump. Properly installed ring gaskets require no sealants. bob

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/94242/circulator-gaskets

Maybe I overtighten the bolts?

Dave H_2

The bolts with the gaskets that come with the circulator do not need to be slammed tight, don't use a 3' cheater bar, don't even need to apply with a grunt or two!

All you need to do is tighten all four bolts, hand tight. then one-half to a full turn is all that is needed to compress those gaskets and make a water tight seal.

All we are doing is keeping back 12-15 psi in the pipes.

If overtightened, it is possible to deflect the flanges on either side and then….

luma

thank you, Dave H_2, will try that… Going to see my buddy boiler now…

luma

boiler has been running for the past 12 hours without any issues. Thank you all for your input!

HomerJSmith

It's nice to hear appreciation and the feedback, so often that doesn't happen.

Thunder_Bear

In the future, you can sometimes slide the pump body between the flanges w/out the gaskets. It should fit right in. Then use a large flathead screwdriver or a flat-bar to pry between the ears of the pump body and the flange. You should be able to pry apart far enough to slip the gasket in. ;)

Then repeat process for other end of the pump.