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The case of why are the pipes banging, this Fridays case.

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RayWohlfarth
RayWohlfarth Member Posts: 1,532

In this case, the brewer said his pipes were banging. This is the steam header. I identified three things wrong. Just curious what you see. I will post the answer Friday morning.

Ray Wohlfarth
Boiler Lessons
mattmia2

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  • retiredguy
    retiredguy Member Posts: 922
    edited June 5
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    Here is what I see, although a wider picture would be helpful. On that installation, I would prefer a header drip trap be installed on both ends of the header, a full size condensate drain fitting the same size as the header be welded to the bottom of the header to collect the condensate, if that is not how it is now installed, a longer vertical drip pipe, a tee instead of the elbow and a drain valve off the tee to flush out the drip pipe, and a stop valve after the discharge tee for future service of the trap or check valve. I would also guess that the trap's condensate handling capacity is too low especially on a cold system startup. Another item, although some may dispute this comment; removing some or all of the insulation on the line after the trap to allow for the condensate to cool.

    Boy, that is a sloppy job of pipe insulation, I would not be proud of that.

  • Intplm.
    Intplm. Member Posts: 2,039
    edited June 5
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    I have heard some very loud swing check valves make some very loud banging noises when added to a system.

    I see something that might have been recently installed. Did the banging start recently? Is that a swing check recently added? It looks new and not insulated like all of the other pipes. This is my first thought as to the source of the banging. Not to mention the condensate backing up.

  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 16,948
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    1- The drip line from the trap has a water pocket- it needs to slope down from the trap all the way to the return line.

    2- The strainer before the trap should be facing to the side instead of straight down- another water pocket.

    What pressure is this system running?

    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Towson, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 15,764
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    Drip to trap may not be large enough

    Trap discharge is lifting condensate

    trap to close to bottom of header

    These 3 things are causing water to back up into header especially on a cold start before you have enough steam pressure to lift the condensate.

    None of the above three problems are fatal mistakes on their own but 3 of them together in one spot is 3 strikes and you're out.

  • RayWohlfarth
    RayWohlfarth Member Posts: 1,532
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    Wow you guys were awesome If I had a star I would put it on your foreheads. LOL

    @EdTheHeaterMan The beer didnt turn out. There are other issues I will share at a later time.

    #1 is the condensate pipe is too close to the steam main

    #2 is they used a concentric reducer instead of an eccentric reducer

    #3 is the strainer should be piped with the blowdown horizontal and not straight down

    #4 is the condensate pipe rises and creates a water seal.

    Here is the video link

    Ray Wohlfarth
    Boiler Lessons
    PC7060Intplm.Double D
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 15,764
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    Just curious

    about the "strainer blowdown straight down" In all my years I have never seen one installed with the blowdown horizontal.

    Where did this come from and what difference does it make? I have never seen one horizontal in any steam books.

    ttekushan_3
  • dko
    dko Member Posts: 623
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    From Spirax Sarco

    Intplm.
  • Intplm.
    Intplm. Member Posts: 2,039
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    @RayWohlfarth

    Nice video. Can you elaborate a bit on the swing check? Is it also part of the problem of making noise?

  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 9,842
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    2 could be solved with a reducing ell….

  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 15,764
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    @dko

    Thanks for the Sarco info. Never heard that before and have never seen one installed that way

    Intplm.
  • RayWohlfarth
    RayWohlfarth Member Posts: 1,532
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    @Intplm. The check valve is used after the steam when you are lifting condensate. It's not needed if the condensate drops or pitched away.

    Ray Wohlfarth
    Boiler Lessons
  • Intplm.
    Intplm. Member Posts: 2,039
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    Yes, agree. I was thinking that this check valve was a part of the banging noise issue.

  • RayWohlfarth
    RayWohlfarth Member Posts: 1,532
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    Oops @Intplm. my bad.

    Ray Wohlfarth
    Boiler Lessons