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Recommendations for a new oil boiler

DB1977
DB1977 Member Posts: 5

I am not int he heating industry. Just a home owner looking to replace an old oil boiler. I have a 26 year old trianco heatmaker that I would like to replace with a new oil boiler. I live in New England and have forced hot water with baseboard elements. I have a 44 gallon super store indirect tank and also a pellet boiler plumbed in alongside the existing Trianco boiler that I can go back and forth between by flipping a switch and a few ball valves.

I am more concerned about reliability than efficiency. I've heard that the high efficiency condensing boilers are not only more expensive to purchase but also more prone to issues because they are more complicated appliances. I have a tall 20-30 foot triple flue chimney. The pellet boiler has a liner but the trianco does not and being as expensive as they are I do not want the new boiler to require a liner. My plumber has recommended going with a Weil Mclain cast iron unit. What would you guys recommend as the best bang for the buck boiler given these considerations; no liner, reliable, good value?

Thanks,

Comments

  • Big Ed_4
    Big Ed_4 Member Posts: 3,020

    I would recommend first to do a heat loss calculation to see what size you need for heat and you may adjust for your hot water needs .. I like a push nipple construction boiler without a coil plate for longevity . The Buderus three pass boiler has always been on the top of my list ..

    You may still need a chimney liner if your combustion gasses condensers in the chimney . Sure you can increase the temperature loss up the chimney to prevent flue condensing . But in the end of the week the liner will be cheaper ..

    There was an error rendering this rich post.

    DB1977
  • SuperTech
    SuperTech Member Posts: 2,430

    My top choice would be an Energy Kinetics System 2000. Second would be a 3 pass boiler like a Buderus, Pure Pro Trio or Utica TriFire. If you are on a budget I would recommend a Peerless WBV, Weil McLain WGO or Crown pin type cast iron boiler.

    Proper sizing and installation is the biggest factor that affects reliability and efficiency.

    szwedjjringelGreening
  • Hot_water_fan
    Hot_water_fan Member Posts: 2,040

    If you’re using oil, don’t worry about condensing boilers. That’s for gas.

    SuperTechbburd
  • Big Ed_4
    Big Ed_4 Member Posts: 3,020
    edited May 6

    Check the chimney during the cold months. If you don't see a space between the condensate flume and top the flue you need a insulated lining…..

    There was an error rendering this rich post.

  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 16,488

    Does your chimney go throught the center of the house or is it an outside chimney? You may not have a choice about the liner. The Weil McLain is a decent boiler as is Peerless

  • JMWHVAC
    JMWHVAC Member Posts: 56

    Another option for avoiding a liner is a direct vent boiler. That means a boiler that vents out the sidewall WITHOUT a power vent. The burner motor does it all. I have installed many of them over the years (have one myself) and I love them because you can get higher efficiency out of them without condensation/chimney liner worries. But like anything, they don't fit all applications. Some folks say they are not a good idea because when/if combustion is ever poor, then you get soot on house wall. That is the main reason I do not use "factory" wall hoods. So many of them have a dumb hood that allows the exhaust to rise up the wall instead of blowing it straight out as I like to do. But even with the many I put in with the dumb hoods (before I went to something better) it is rare to see any sort of discoloration on the wall.

    Reminds me of the GAS boiler installers who vented a condensing boiler right where the homeowner parked his fancy car for the winter. The installing company ended up paying for the new, expensive paint job. So its not just oil combustion exhaust that needs to be handled correctly.

  • JMWHVAC
    JMWHVAC Member Posts: 56

    Just looked on Weil Mclain's website and it says their Ultra oil boiler is offered in a direct vent configuration. W

  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 24,862

    If your installer likes Weil-McClain, then that's the make to use. As has been said, make sure it is sized correctly — with hot water systems, to the heat loss of the house. The make of boiler is interesting, and they do differ — but they are all about the same efficiency fired on oil, and a happy and competent installer is much more important.

    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
    EdTheHeaterMan
  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 9,386
    edited May 6

    I am not a Weil McLain fan, but the Ultra Oil boiler is the exception the the rule with my dislike for that brand. I have never installed one or worked on one. I have sworn off WM before they came out with the Ultra Oil, but have looked at it at some trade shows and believe it is better than their average oil boiler.

    That said, you need to know that the connections between the sections are rubber gaskets and not steal push nipples like most other brands. I don't know about the control system, sometimes they go rogue with some weird thing that ends up being replaced with something more conventional after several years of problems. I don't know what control version (they call the Series) they are up to by now. BUT with all my dislike, they do make a decent product and I agree with @Jamie Hall. When it comes to selecting the brand. You can get a great design and manufacturer installed by a total idiot and you will say that Brand "B" is the worst boiler in the world. Then you can get an inferior piece of equipment installed by a total professional that knows what they are doing and the El-cheapo boiler is the best thing since sliced bread.

    Go with the brand your contractor recommends and is familiar with.

    Edit: When I hear Trianco Heat Maker, I think of a particular model of Gas Boiler model H, HP, and HW, that was manufactured by the Trianco folks before they sold to Laars.  Are you referring to that boiler or the Trianco Oil Fired boilers?

    Edward Young Retired

    After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?

  • DB1977
    DB1977 Member Posts: 5

    I have an outside chimney. I have a chimney company coming tomorrow to clean the pellet boiler liner and they're going to take a peek at the flue that the oil boiler uses to see what condition it's in. I was thinking that if they clay tiles are in pretty good condition that means the gases are not condensing and damaging the chimney and then it would be Ok to get one of the Weil McClains that doesn't need a liner. My plumber said this makes sense but if there is erosion/damage to the existing clay tiles I would need a liner in which case it might make sense to bump up from the Weil McClain to a Buderus G115. My two primary concerns are maintaining the structural integrity of the chimney and having a boiler that is as reliable as possible. My plumber said even though the Buderus is a condensing boiler it's a very reliable unit and not too much more than a Weil Mcclain.

    So if the chimney guys tell me there's any condensation/damage to the tiles observable I'm thinking I'll go with the Buderus G115 and have whatever liner is required dropped in to it. Does this sound like a good plan?

    bburd
  • SuperTech
    SuperTech Member Posts: 2,430

    The Buderus is definitely not a condensing boiler. I would be concerned with the competence of a professional who claims this. You will certainly need a liner with the Buderus.

    I would never recommend the Weil McLain Ultra Oil unless you get it with a burner that isn't the Beckett NX. I see nothing but problems with that combination. Nice boiler, but I don't like that burner.

    EdTheHeaterMan
  • Robert_25
    Robert_25 Member Posts: 549

    If you primarily heat with wood pellets, the ROI on a top of the line oil boiler vs. a basic cast iron boiler will be pretty long. proper sizing and installation is more important than picking WM vs. Peerless, etc.

    If you do end up considering a direct vent unit, be mindful of where the exhaust exits the home vs. where you may spend time outside in the warmer months. I know a few people with direct vent oil boilers that complain of exhaust smells on the porch/deck if the wind is just right. I would stick with the chimney if you can.

    LRCCBJ
  • DB1977
    DB1977 Member Posts: 5
    edited May 8

    My plumber may have said high efficiency and not condensing and I may have unintentionally misrepresented what he said. It was a while ago and I have been doing a lot of research. I've used him for years for various things (such as installing a heat pump water heater, my pellet boiler and other work) and never had an issue with his work.

    The chimney guys told me yesterday that I actually have a 5inch or 5.5 inch stainless steel liner on my existing Trianco heatmaker oil boiler. Would that meet the specs for liner requirements on Buderus G115?

    The main reason I am looking at replacing the oil boiler is because the one I have now is coming up on 25 years old and I am trying to be proactive. I'm not looking for cost savings by installing a new oil boiler. I'm a natural born pessimist and the idea of having redundant heating appliances, each one having a unique fuel source, that I can switch between by merely flipping a few ball valves in the event one experiences issues holds great value for me. My wife and plan on staying in the house for at least another 15-20 years and we can afford a new boiler.

    It's my understanding that the Buderus G115 is a very decent and reliable unit but not a top dollar, top of the line boiler. My plumber has not had the chance to price them out yet but he said he wouldn't expect a Buderus G115 to be much more than $500-600 more than a basic Weil MCClain cast iron unit.

    I do all the annual maintenance on my pellet boiler myself. I'd like to learn to do the annual maintenance on the new oil boiler myself because it would be more convenient and save me money on having my plumber come do it. What do you guys think about the reliability and ease of maintenance between the Buderus G115 and a basic Weil McClain cast iron boiler?

  • SuperTech
    SuperTech Member Posts: 2,430

    The quality of the installation determines the reliability of the boiler. The installing contractor makes or breaks the job. I consider the Buderus to be a top of the line boiler, the only one I like better is the Energy Kinetics EK-1F. Check out the installation manual for details about the venting requirements. Make sure the installer follows the installation instructions, this is critical.

    I don't recommend DIY maintenance, especially on a Buderus. Proper combustion analysis and draft measurements need to be taken annually. A combustion analyzer is an expensive, essential tool and learning how to interpret readings properly only comes from extensive training and experience, not YouTube videos. Leave it to professionals for the sake of you and your family.

    Greening
  • DB1977
    DB1977 Member Posts: 5

    The chinney guy yesterday didn't tell me if the liner on my existing oil boiler is insulated. As a general rule do oil boil liners need to be insulated or is that impossible to make a blanket statement on with out knowing stack height and specific boiler model?

  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 9,386
    edited May 8

    Not all liners are insulated. I would guess that your liner is not insulated. In most cases involving an oil fired boiler, you do not need an insulated liner. You just don't want the condensation that forms in the chimney to damage the bricks or clay liner over time. Stainless steel can withstand condensation for many years. If the Chimney inspection did not show any corrosion of damage to the liner you have, then you are good to go with the Buderus.

    I like Buderus over WM WGO boilers, because they are easy to maintain the heat exchanger with a large brush. The WM pin boilers are difficult to run that brush thru and many times you damage the combustion chamber when brushing the last section closest to the back of the boiler.

    With any oil boiler, doing self maintenance is problematic, because most DIY folks lak the combustion analysis tools needed to get it right. I have had experience with doing proper maintenance on oil burners where removing a year's worth of lint and household dust from the burner fan, air intake and other air handling parts will end up needing no adjustment of the flame. But there are many burner men that neglect to make those cleaning steps and opt for making the air adjustment to get the combustion test numbers they are looking for.

    I like to show my apprentice mechanics the best way to do oil burner maintenance is to get the burner as clean as possible so the original settings do not need to be adjusted.  Remove all the lint from the fan every year, remove the dust form the air adjustment opening every year, and check the pump pressure every nozzle change. Then you will find the original settings (if they were correctly made) will never need to be changed.

    As long as you keep your maintenance to stuff that requires no combustion testing, like replacing the oil filter, and cleaning the burner fan each year, and brushing and vacuum cleaning the boiler heat exchanger if needed, then you will be good to go with DIY maintenance.  But when it comes to changing the nozzle and setting the proper air fuel mixture/pressure. Then you need to call the guy with the combustion analysis tools to get it right.  (unless you have an extra grand to purchase a set of gauges and tools to test for smoke spot, CO², O²,  stack temperature, and draft conditions)

    Edward Young Retired

    After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?