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Distance and height from oil tank to burner

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Dudeextrem
Dudeextrem Member Posts: 6
Hello, have a question that I can’t seem to find an answer to and you guys are always what I refer to when trying to figure something out.  I recently had to move my indoor 275 gallon oil tank further from my furnace and had a couple questions.  The tank is now located 70 linear feet from the furnace (7’ rise 5’ fall and 58 ish feet in between.).  I have to run it overhead as the floor can’t be cut out to run it under the slab.  My questions are.

1.  It’s currently hooked up with a 3/8” copper single line, can I get a larger section of this tubing and run one solid line from the tank to the furnace or would this be too far.  

2.  Would the addition of a tiger loop in the furnace help accomplish the mission. 

3.  Are there any problem running a copper line full of fuel across but not touching ductwork in my basement ceiling?

thanks so much for your help 

Comments

  • Intplm.
    Intplm. Member Posts: 2,011
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    A tiger loop is fine if you want to.

    A feed and return pipe on the floor where the wall meets the floor is a better place to run the pipe with a final turn to the burner if there's access from tank to burner on the floor.

    A two pipe, feed and return in my opinion is a great way to install the oil lines at this distance from tank to fuel unit.
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 23,455
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    On the third question -- no there's no problem, but make sure that the line or lines does not touch, not is rigidly supported on or suspended from the ductwork. If it does or is, the vibration in the line will get into the ductwork and be sent through the entire building. Very annoying...

    I agree with @Intplm. Better if it could go on the floor -- that long a line may be a problem to prime -- but if it has to go overhead, use two lines.
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 15,635
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    agree. 2 pipe . make sure all the flares and pipe fittings are 100% tight. No substitute for a tight suction line. Stay away from the TL unless you absolutely need it (and you don't if you get everything tight).
  • SuperTech
    SuperTech Member Posts: 2,188
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    Is there any way to avoid running such a long overhead line? Can't you run it along the perimeter of the slab? It certainly doesn't need to be underneath it. Running the the lines overhead sets you up for the potential for all sorts of problems in the future. Single line gravity fed to the burner is the best way to go, I would never recommend installing a oil line like you suggested. 
  • Dudeextrem
    Dudeextrem Member Posts: 6
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    Thanks, the burner is on the middle of my basement in a mechanical room and the tank is in the back corner with a carpeted finished space in between so running on the floor or around the walls isn’t an option as there’s no adjoining or connecting walls.  I’m kind of stuck with overhead as my only option.  The tank and burner are on the same elevation.  Am I able to run 2 lines using my current pump or would this require a new pump setup. My current setup is 3/8” line from the tank into a screw on filter then into the furnace.  Thanks 
  • SuperTech
    SuperTech Member Posts: 2,188
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    You shouldn't need a new pump, just install the bypass plug in the return port for two pipe oil line setup.
  • Dudeextrem
    Dudeextrem Member Posts: 6
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    ok thanks for the help I’ll give it a try, just trying to learn what is the need for a return line of it currently operates just fine with just a single line.

  • captainco
    captainco Member Posts: 796
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    Two line waste of money.

  • Dudeextrem
    Dudeextrem Member Posts: 6
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    I guess I just don’t understand the purpose of the return line, is that to help with air removal or just to dump excess fuel back to the tank, and if it is to dump excess fuel what is the burner doing with it currently setup with only one line for suction?

  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 8,128
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    To put this in a nut shell, any slight leak in the fuel line connections, no matter how small will most likely let air leak in. Eventually you will have no heat.

    Here's why.   When there is enough air, and the pump turns on to pump fuel into the nozzle, that air will get lodged in the pump's strainer compartment.   When there is enough of that air in the strainer compartment, The pump's gear set will compress the air and move that air to the pressure regulator in the pump that sends the oil to the nozzle.  With compressed air the pressure regulator will not open, so nothing will go to the nozzle.  That compressed air just keeps circling back to the strainer compartment then into the gear set then to the pressure regulator then back to the strainer compartment.  No heat!

    With a two pipe system, the path from the pressure regulator to the strainer compartment is blocked with a bypass plug.  Then the air goes back to the tank thru the second pipe.  That air is then replaced by liquid fuel.  The gear sed does not compress the liquid fuel so hydraulic pressure builds up inside the pump and opens the pressure regulator and that sends oil to the nozzle.  Any oil the nozzle does not use will bypass the pressure regulator in the pump and also return to the tank in the second pipe.  That makes the fuel system self priming.  No need to let the air out of the priming port until the oil flows.

    In a perfect world, there would be absolutely no air leaks in fuel lines and there would be no need for ways to remove that air.  Many folks herein will tell you that you do not need a tigerloop. You should install the fuel lines so they don't leak.

    Well it is not like we never had fuel line problems before the invention of the tigerloop,  That is why fuel pumps can be installed in a two pipe arrangement.  So they can be self priming in the event that there is a little air in the fuel lines.  

    If you were my customer, I would purchase a 100 foot coil of fuel line with the plastic coating.  Instal the 70+ Feet of continuous tubing from the tank to the oil burner and install one tiger loop. I would also make sure the fuel line connections were flare fittings with no leaks. I can verify that there are no leaks by viewing the bubble free oil in the tigerloop. 

    25 years from now when something happens to the fuel line and an air leak develops you will not experience a heat failure.  Then the next time I was there for service I would see the air bubbles in the tigerloop and then look for the reason for the air leak. 


    Edward Young Retired

    After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?

    MaxMercyrick in Alaska
  • captainco
    captainco Member Posts: 796
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    I worked for a wholesaler that repaired oil pumps. When the pump was repaired and tested it was hooked up with a two-line system. 3 feet of supply and 3 feet of return. Ever time the pumped stopped there was after drip. Every time we ran th e pump until the oil was clear, we would open up the bleed port and it was full of air bubbles. Where did the air come from? In the field using a combustion analyzer I saw excessive CO from the dripping oil at shutdown. From that point on I told my customers to switch back to a one=line system or I couldn't help. Tiger loop ok but rarely necessary.

  • Dudeextrem
    Dudeextrem Member Posts: 6
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    thanks, I just purchased a 100’ roll and am planning on hooking it up as a 1 pipe system. I’m going to use the remaining 30ish feet of pipe leftover and flare it to connect it to my current line as a return line if I were to need it down the road it would be ran already.

  • leonz
    leonz Member Posts: 1,160
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    Make sure you add a tiger loop to this new fuel piping.

  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 8,128
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    Why does it seam that two people are having the same problem at the same time?

    I have answered much of this on this discussion

    Edward Young Retired

    After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?

  • Dudeextrem
    Dudeextrem Member Posts: 6
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    thanks guys does the tiger loop get installed at the tank or where the line enters the furnace?

  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 8,128
    edited May 21
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    one pipe from the tank to the burner location. the tigerloop is installed near the oil burner. Two short flexible oil lines 36"long (or about 1 meter) connect the tiger loop to the fuel pump.

    Something like this.

    Edward Young Retired

    After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?