New York gas piping
Comments
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I prefer Megaloc & Plain White Teflon Paste generally. Rectorseal 5 for Oil Burner fittings. Mad Dog
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The master plumber exam here is still like that. We have the NYC test nipple sets (1/8" increment nipple sizes) and no dope allowed. Couple of our guys recently got licensed and had to do the same test.
Photo from someone practicing a decade ago found via google
Still the same test
The nipple sets are expensive! They must have immaculate threads and perfect lengths.
Material list
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100psi
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100 PSI.
That "8-sided figure" as they call it is the test I took in 1998. I think it was the 2nd or 3rd year that test was the official exam. My brother and father took the lead wiping test years before that. The year I applied, I was one of 2500 applicants. When the test was over, the city gave out 32 licenses that round.
I'm license number 1784, my brother is 1468, my father is 399.Contact John "JohnNY" Cataneo, NYC Master Plumber, Lic 1784
Consulting & Troubleshooting
Heating in NYC or NJ.
Classes
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Are the Master Plumber Candidates allowed to bring their own fittings and nipples?
NPTF (National Pipe Taper Fuel) is cut to a tighter fit.
National Pipe Taper Fuel (NPTF, also called Dryseal American National Standard Taper Pipe Thread, defined by ASME B1.20.3) is designed to provide a more leak-free seal without the use of PTFE tape (often referred to by the popular brand name "Teflon") or another
sealant compound. NPTF threads have the same basic shape but with crest
and root heights adjusted for an interference fit, eliminating the
spiral leakage path.
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Yeah
And yet all of the npt joints I made aren't leaking. Why? Why isn't there a spiral leak path?
Single pipe 392sqft system with an EG-40 rated for 325sqft and it's silent and balanced at all times.
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@ChrisJ said "And yet all of the npt joints I made aren't leaking. Why? Why isn't there a spiral leak path?"
I'll speculate you had new good quality nipples and steel fittings, and you tightened them enough to distort the threads, obstructing the spiral leak path.
Kind of like swaging a fitting onto wire rope.
Wheatland Tube SureThread pipe is annealed to be soft and deformable. Once nipples or fittings are used, the surface of the threads may get case hardened. Also, when threading into cast iron, only the steel half of the joint is deformable, which could leave open a spiral leak path.
So there is still a need for tape and/or dope. Just depends on what one is working with.
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I was surprised years ago when I read on the Rectorseal True Blue can to "dope the inside threads on pipe 1 1/4" and larger" but that is what they say.
I will just show the can to the inspector and tell him "I put dope on according to the MFG instructions"😎
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Yes Chris. You provide all the materials and tools. The seamless pipe and nipples are extremely expensive. It's ridiculous. It's a clear "Gatekeeper" tactic to limit the # of LMPs per yr. Mad Dog
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Never herd of nipples being available in 1/8" increments.
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The question that begs regarding any "sealant" or "lubricant" or the lack thereof is as follows:
When a tapered joint is assembled, the contact surfaces are across the face of the thread. No fluid or gas will pass across the faces, along the pitch line, once the joint is made up. Doesn't matter if you use lubricant or sealant, or nothing.
The problem occurs when the major diameter of the male thread fails to contact the major diameter of the female thread and/or the minor diameter of the male thread fails to contact the minor diameter of the female thread. In either event, you have a path for a leak. There is a slight clearance around the edge of the thread for fluid to pass.
Now, the only way you do not have a leak without sealant of some type if IF the pitch diameter, major diameter and minor diameters ALL contact their mating surfaces at the same point. Due to the massive localized forces that cause deformation of the fitting during assembly, this is possible. But, it is certainly not assured.
The above is why folks find the amount of torque necessary to get a seal to be variable. If the fitting is made with very close tolerances, a fairly low torque is necessary (maybe 40 lb-ft on a 1" thread). But, when greater torque is utilized, the potential for full contact between the major and minor diameters is increased while the pitch faces are deformed a bit during the application of this higher torque. It is certainly possible to put 100 ft-lb. into a 1" fitting with a suitable extension on the pipe wrench.
I commend those that can assemble a Chinese fitting without any dope and have a perfect seal!!
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You'll notice all of the fittings I used were Ward.
I wanted to make sure my test had good parts.
Single pipe 392sqft system with an EG-40 rated for 325sqft and it's silent and balanced at all times.
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One more thought. The nipple is tapered. Turning it too far into cast iron (and other materials) could split the cast iron. That would be an expensive mistake on a new boiler. Less gorilla and some tape and/or dope might be prudent.
There are charts that list the number of turns to make up an NPT joint. If you are going well beyond that, either the threads are cut wrong, or something is going to break.
People who do this for a living develop a feel for what works, what doesn't, and how to avoid callbacks. For the rest of us, don't use a 48" pipe wrench or ridiculous sized cheater on 1" pipe.
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I'd like to see if you could perform some torque test with Ward fittings. Take a 3/4" Ward elbow and see if a "quality" nipple will thread and hold pressure at minimal torque (say 30 lb-ft) without sealant. What does it take to seal a set of decent threads, without dope?
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I've attempted to use the values for the makeup on various NPT assemblies. Inevitably the claimed makeup value is never achieved. The male is likely too large per the specifications. This results in the wrong length overall (too long) and the calculations became worthless when attempting to get an assembly together in advance. I like to build iron sections in the shop rather than on my knees on the floor!
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Maybe some day we'll have a torque wrench pipe wrench. Until that day we'll have to get by with the Tork-Grip Vice Grip torque wrench:
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I am sorry to say that a Vice Grip is no substitute for a proper pipe wrench when you need to get above say 40 lb-ft. The jaws are too narrow to transmit the torque and the shape of the jaws is not tapered like a pipe wrench so that the grip force increases with the torque applied.
Might work for 1/2" and below……….that's about it.
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The vise grip torque wrench is one of the late great Sheldon Brown's April Fool's jokes. Sadly he is no longer with us, but he did fool LRCCBJ from the great beyond.
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/bicycleHumor.html
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Yes he did!! Well done😁
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It had a range of torque settings:
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Every tool kit needs a Visegrip...I have all different configurations..Mad Dog
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