ARCO Ideal Round Water Boiler (1920’s)

sopcopotoptop

I have just picked up this museum piece with the intention of setting up but may never fire it. That is to be determined. May only be a conversation piece. It is complete but I’m wondering what to do with the two ports in the back of the fire pot. I’m guessing that in a steam boiler these would have had plugs that would melt away to relieve pressure in case of a low or dry fire situation but what about in normal operation as a hot water system? They were open when I retrieved the boiler. What should I use to close them up? The boiler is a model 4-28-W, Series 28-1B. Any information would be appreciated.

ArthurTaylor

This boiler is heating the home today and was installed the year her grandparents got married and built the house. 1923

EBEBRATT-Ed

Those two tapping were probably for an external tankless heater for DHW.

Jamie Hall

If there were fusible plugs -- and there might have been, some power boilers had them -- they would be between the crown sheet or top of the firebox and the combustion chamber. Dump boiler water on the fire if things got out of hand... NOT safe, as in a power boiler the pressure would tend to blow the fire or the coals out of the firebox through the front dampers or loading doors. Very exciting.

delcrossv

I'd use bolts and washers. I wouldn't want to try to thread anything into those due to cracking risk.

sopcopotoptop

I would tend to agree that the we’re openings to run tubing through for a tankless hot water coil. They are not threaded. Just open hoke about an inch and a quarter in diameter. Just plugging with bolts, nuts and washers should be all that is needed to cap them off.

sopcopotoptop

Confirmed from an Ideal Fitters book from 1925. TACO water heater on 9” centers.
Thanks for the responses.

Big Ed_4

They all blow up too ....

delcrossv

Then close nipples and caps might be a better look.

sopcopotoptop

I’ve seen them closed with what looks like boiler cement as well.

EdTheHeaterMan

Back in the day that your boiler was operating, a piece of galvanized pipe went thru those openings. The water jacket or coil or heat exchanger of some type that hovered over the coal fire was connected to those pipes. At some point in the life of that heater, the DHW HX was removed and the openings were covered with asbestos cement. Thus was to match the asbestos cement that insulated the rest of the boiler's exterior as seen in Art Taylor's photo.

Since no one sells Asbestos insulating cement for this purpose any more, I would say that you can just use furnace cement to do that job. If you are actually going to try to commission this with a real fire at some point, you may want to try to find some way to insulate the boiler as shown in Art's photo. If I were going to do that as a museum project, I might start with sections of semi rigid fiberglass (like duct board) and carve some ridges in the fiberglass to allow it to conform to the curves of the boiler as needed. Once the boiler is covered with the fiberglass I would wrap the fiberglass with chicken wire in order to hold a coating of a plaster sub base. Something like a Structo-lite brand of plaster wall base coat. You may need to get someone that can sculpt the coating of plaster to conform to all the ridges, peaks and valleys of the boiler This was an artform in itself back in the days of boiler builders and steamfitters of the 1800’s and early 1900’s If you want to take the time to learn that skill, it would be a nice touch.

With the furnace cement in the holes, the fiberglass and plaster coating, those openings will not be of any consequence when it comes time to fire that boiler.

From what I remember of those boilers, that coating of asbestos insulation was about 1½” to 2” thick. So to get the look as realistic as possible I would start with 1” duct board for the base of the insulation and use Structo-lite as a glue to hold the pieces of insulation in place. As soon as you get a section completed I would wrap a 12” wide section of chicken wire around the boiler to hole the fiberglass in place. Continue to add insulation and chicken wire as you go up to the top barrel of the boiler . Custom pieces of fiberglass can be cut to form the base of the insulation on the boiler, with the chicken wire acting as the outer strap to hold the fiberglass, and as the support for the last outer coat of the plaster. I have had great success with Structo-lite when securing vent connectors of boilers to the chimney base. There is very little shrinking and cracking of the Structo-lite after it cures. It also dries very fast, usually within 20 minutes of initial mixing, allowing for multiple coats to be applied in the same day.

Once you get it close to the form you want, it can be sanded , and any high spots can be reduced to a very smooth finish. Since it is used for plaster walls, it will accept white wall paint for a professional look. That is one ides that I would try if I were in your shoes.

EdTheHeaterMan

Here is what the first layer, the fiberglass insulation might look like.
Start with a manageable size of duct board, say 12" x 36".
Then cut some wedges from it about every 2”.
Then those wedges will allow the board to curve.
Then you can cut out for the doors and pipes.
Then make a dry fit and adjust as needed.
Then apply the structo-lite to the boiler as an adhesive.
Then place the duct board on the boiler.

Continue until the boiler is covered with fiberglass.
Then chicken wire over the entire boiler.
Then become an artist with plaster.

EdTheHeaterMan

ArthurTaylor said:

This boiler is heating the home today and was installed the year her grandparents got married and built the house. 1923

This car was also built in 1923. I wonder if her grandparents owned one back in the day?

Big Ed_4

That T can sit for 50 years and it would start . Can't say that with the cars made today ....

sopcopotoptop

EdTheHeaterMan, thank you for the fantastic step-by-step procedure in insulating this wonderful relic of heating history. I can’t get over what great shape it is for being a 100 years old. I suppose that it could have been taken out of service anytime within its first 20 years or so of service when gas mains became available. At the very least I could have imagined it to be converted to gas but there was no sign of that ever happening. It’s just well built!
Since I have your ear what cement product do you recommend to seal the seams of the sections as well as the doors to the carcass? I am thinking some type of refractory cement? The stuff I dug out was very hard and brittle but was not necessarily loose. Further it did not seem to got the full depth of the sections but rather only about an inch deep.
Also what problems do you envision I may have with leaks around the nipples. They stayed with one section or the other when I split them apart and all have gone straight back together as they came apart. I also greased them up so they wouldn’t rust until I get the boiler into the cellar. It sits partially assembled in our barn. Very heavy at 1,480 pounds assembled.

sopcopotoptop

Would like to find or have made new push-nipples for this boiler. The measurements are 3-7/8” ID and 4-3/8” OD both at the openings. They look to be iron.
Utica has a 4” boiler push-nipple but I can’t get actual dimensions from their suppliers.
Looking for advice on these. I can’t imagine they would be too hard to machine on a lathe with the right 4” ID cast iron pipe.
Thanks for your time.

EdTheHeaterMan

Those sound like standard 4" push nipples. I would order them from Utica. Thru a local supply house that sells utica boilers

Let me make some inquiries. Probably won't here from my source until Monday or Tuesday

sopcopotoptop

Super! Thanks much!

sopcopotoptop

After 2 years of working on restoring this boiler I am getting ready to install. I’ve worked on the chimney making sure it's sound and tight with no leaks and have just finished the new ash pit excavation. More to come as I continue to put this back together.

EBEBRATT-Ed

Is that wood in the bottom of the hole?

sopcopotoptop

No. It’s a concrete formed shovel trench about 2” deep, 14” wide to accommodate by 9” shovel.

sopcopotoptop

Finished the installation, setup and hook up. May never use but I like the look.

EdTheHeaterMan

Are you going to wrap it with insulation? That will make it look original for sure. I just thoight of another insulation trick. After you chicken wire fiberglass insulation in place you can mix some Struct o lite with some vermiculite to make an insulating filler for any of the larger voids you may have between the fiberglass pieces that will do the bulk of the work. After you have the thing looking like a snowman, then you place the last coat of Struct o lite with no vermiculite on about 3/8" thick, after that drys you ca nskim coat with drywall compound to make the smooth finish the boiler installers of the 1800s and early 1900s would do. They were real artists. A coat of whitewash as a sealer to keep the dust from flying around every time you bump covering. Nice job with what you have done so far.

EdTheHeaterMan

If you are not going to insulate it, then I would at least paint all 4 doors the same black that you painted the top door. That looks great with the white raised letters.

EBEBRATT-Ed

Not vermiculite it contains asbestos or used to.

I can remember taking those boilers out those horizontal sections were something else.

Cut the ty rods drive some wedges in to get the sections up and tip them onto the floor hoping they fell the right way. Put some pallets or something on the floor like and old mattress for them to land on so you wouldn't bust up the floor. Rubber tire didn't work too well they would bounce off. Roll them like a car tire over to the stairs and haul them out. Bust up the bottom section with sledgehammers nasty job.

Must have been fun picking those sections up to assemble the boiler. Most basements the ceilings were too low to use a chain hoist

EdTheHeaterMan

Vermiculite is still used by florists for potted plants and the like. Not all vermiculite contains asbestos. I believe that adding that to the plaster sub-base like Struct o lite will add insulation value to what would normally be a less insulated filler for the boiler insulation practice you would want to use today, and still get the look of the original asbestos insulation without the actual asbestos.

mattmia2

i think i've seen pictures f houses being built with the boiler in the basement before the floor was built.

i'm not so sure people are concerned about asbestos contaminating vermiculite used in gardening. i think it is one of those things that they just stopped talking about and it never got addressed. like the asbestos wiring in most light fixtures from before the early 70's or so and heating appliances with asbestos wiring. or friction materials that it isn't clear even today if some formulations contain asbestos.

i thin structo lite comes with vermiculite aggregate.

EBEBRATT-Ed

I only mentioned vermiculite because I had some of it insulating my attic when I sold my house and I had to knock off some $$$.

I talked with an abatement co and he said some contains asbestos and some does not. depends on the mine it came from.

Like everything else they make a big deal about then 20 years later they look the other way.

sopcopotoptop

Thanks all for the insulation tips. For now I l believe I’ll paint it all black but leave the few colored areas alone. If I decide to insulate I’ll use the techniques you’ve explained. Also attached is an identical boiler as mine but only in steam. Same 28” grate. I took these pix in ‘96 while I was house sitting for the neighbor up the street. Her house was built in 1912 and the boiler was converted to gas in the late ‘30’s when gas first came to town. She was not married and so I’m sure she’d was only to happy to convert to gas!

EdTheHeaterMan

@mattmia2 said "i thin structo lite comes with vermiculite aggregate."

The Struct o lite I used did not come with any aggregate. This was the stuff that was used as the first coat of a plaster and lath or plaster over mesh wall covering before Drywall became popular. You see it where it oozed thru the lath, on the lath side of the wall in the attic or basements where the other side of the wall was not finished. No aggregate needed there, it needed to be thin enough to go between the lath spaces.

I actually remember installing a wall register in a plaster wall, and a piece of plaster about 3 to 4 square feet fell off the wall while I was carefully cutting the opening. The customer saw it happen. I felt my stomach turn upside down, but I didn't let on.

After the hole was cut, I went out to my truck, where I had half of a 5-gallon bucket of Structo-Lite that I used for sealing vent connectors to masonry chimneys. I mixed up the entire batch and plastered the wall like I knew what I was doing.

The next day, I returned with drywall compound and applied a very thin coat over the rough plaster surface. On the third day, I did a little sanding, and the wall was ready for painting. The customer had the correct color paint in the basement, and you couldn't tell there had ever been a problem.

I actually impressed myself, along with the customer!

Two more days later, the complete AC system was finished, and the customer was a happy camper.

I'm so glad that the chimney contractor in Philadelphia we used for solving draft problems told me about Struct o lite way back in 1977. I have carried that on my service truck ever since and my chimney connections never crack and peal away like furnace cement can.

lowercanada

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/196675/arco-ideal-round-water-boiler-1920-s

Where "picked up" isn't exactly literally…;-)

I had a client (carpentry work) more years ago than I want to think about who had the firebox for one of those in their basement…I said "Hey, I could cut that up, or smash it up (like and old claw foot tub) and you'd have that space back for something useful"

It laughed at my sledge hammer and snickered at my cut-off bladeand AFAIK it's still there !!!

sopcopotoptop

lowercanada, that beast weighed 1,480 pounds dry. I poured high strength structural concrete under it to handle at least 2,000.

lowercanada

this is a fabulous post….thank you for taking the time!

Steve214

I would not insulate it maybe just paint it. It looks cool just the way it is now.

I’m getting close to finishing my career in the oil/hvac service business and I wish I had the opportunity to meet/work with the “dead men” who installed these systems in homes. They were the best!!! I’m sure you guys will agree.

sopcopotoptop

I’m fortunate to have a resource like Heating Help.com to bounce my hare brained ideas off of. This boiler may never see a fire within her or may just on a whim but I wanted to reconstruct the entire setup to be representative of the era. Our home was built in 1908 and this boiler was the last piece of the puzzle (and hardest to find) to complete an era restoration. We literally live in a museum. These boilers are either still in use, complete piles of brittle rust or busted all to kingdom come. Thus one was just waiting to be resurrected. It’s nearly the correct age be a contemporary to the house by maybe not more than eight years or so.

Thanks again for your comments and help!