How to interpret indirect water heater specs

THETRUCK454

For my new mod con install I'm looking at replacing the 25yr old HTP indirect. When looking at a replacement I'm limited on height of under 48". That limits me to most companies 30-40 gallon models. They all seam to use different criteria when determining the first hour rating like different delta T, different Btu input and gpm flow from the boiler, etc. Some of them list hx surface area and capacity. Should I pay more attention to the hx specs than the first hour rating? My top contenders are the B&W Power Stor SS 40 gal, and a HTP superstor 30 or Weil McLain Aqua Plus 35 gal.

Big Ed_4

What is your hot water demand ?

EBEBRATT-Ed

I would use the model with the largest tank. The more storage the more hot water you get. The storage capacity will give you more water than the slight differences in hhx capacity, btu input etc.

Whichever tank you use it should probably be piped with 1" pipe

EdTheHeaterMan

The pipe sizing for the boiler side is important.
How close to the boiler is the DHW?
A 3/4" pipe will move less BTU from the boiler to the water heater than a 1" pipe. Likewise a 1" pipe will move less BTU than an 1-1/4" pipe.

This is a rule of thumb I used for pipe sizing.


It is based on a 20° temperature drop from the supply to the return. I got this information from this very informative booklet called Zoning Made Easy If the boiler is within a few feet of the Indirect DHW, than you may get a little more heat energy than this chart. If the Indirect is under the steps and the boiler is on the other side of the basement, then you want to use a larger diameter pipe.

You can have a 199,000 BTU Boiler connected to the Indirect with 3/4" pipe, and you will not get the full energy for the boiler to heat the water in the Indirect. That is because the smaller pipe can not move much more than 40,000 of the available 199,000 BTU's to heat the water in the indirect.

Karl Reynolds

If you need extra capacity, HeatFlo makes a 44" tall 60 gallon tank, Buderus has a 79 gallon horizontal tank, and Viessmann has 53, 92, and 119 gallon horizontal tanks.

THETRUCK454

Big Ed_4 said:

What is your hot water demand ?

Just a wife who like to take long showers and melt her skin off every time.  

EBEBRATT-Ed said:

I would use the model with the largest tank. The more storage the more hot water you get. The storage capacity will give you more water than the slight differences in hhx capacity, btu input etc. Whichever tank you use it should probably be piped with 1" pipe

Definitely planning on 1" copper linesEdTheHeaterMan said:

The pipe sizing for the boiler side is important. How close to the boiler is the DHW? A 3/4" pipe will move less BTU from the boiler to the water heater than a 1" pipe. Likewise a 1" pipe will move less BTU than an 1-1/4" pipe. This is a rule of thumb I used for pipe sizing. It is based on a 20° temperature drop from the supply to the return. I got this information from this very informative booklet called Zoning Made Easy If the boiler is within a few feet of the Indirect DHW, than you may get a little more heat energy than this chart. If the Indirect is under the steps and the boiler is on the other side of the basement, then you want to use a larger diameter pipe. You can have a 199,000 BTU Boiler connected to the Indirect with 3/4" pipe, and you will not get the full energy for the boiler to heat the water in the Indirect. That is because the smaller pipe can not move much more than 40,000 of the available 199,000 BTU's to heat the water in the indirect.

The indirect will be about 6' away from the boiler.  

Karl Reynolds said:

If you need extra capacity, HeatFlo makes a 44" tall 60 gallon tank, Buderus has a 79 gallon horizontal tank, and Viessmann has 53, 92, and 119 gallon horizontal tanks.

Didn't even look at those companies, I'll take a look

NotFromHere

I’m no plumber or expert of any kind, but I can speak from the experience of having replaced a conventional 40 gallon gas water heater with a Weil-McLain Aqua Plus 35 gallon indirect hot water heater connected to our Weil-McLain Ultra 105 boiler.

We’ve had the Aqua Plus for just over two years, and it’s honestly like having unlimited hot water. We’re a family of four (two teenagers), and we have never run out of hot water since we had it installed.

Its recovery time is super fast, and you can tweak it by going to the max of 190 on the boiler and then set the water heater higher as well (higher than the 120 degree water that the mixing valve provides). Our installer set it to 190 on the boiler and 140 on the water heater. I’ve since changed it to 180 and 130 and that’s been fine. 

Not sure they make the 35 gallon version any more, but I’d probably be just as happy with the 30. 

clammy

There's a few others out there like bock and turbo max tanks .I ve used both and haven't had any issues aside from yearly or bi year anode rod replacement . the htp tanks are nice except no well just a tank surface mounted sensor . Any tanks output can be increased by increase tank temp and installing a mixing valve which is code . The down fall of higher tank temps is the increased rate in which lime and calc will build up including a simple aquapur scale inhibitor lower the build up and yearly or bi flushing of tanks also help reduce build up and increase longevity of the tanks . Also no indirect tank install is complete and warrantied unless the homes water pressure is checked and a portable domestic expansion tank is installed . When installing a turbo max style tank be sure to include the extra water volume to the heating size when picking your heating systems expansion tank . Final note but being your using a mod con its a given indirect deserve there own circulator pump equipped w check valves and when using a turbo max style tank be sure to include a flow check on the return also especially if your heating w low temps being thermal migration does occur and ends up short cycling the tank as the heat migrates to the heating side when heating is operating a outdoor reset at low temps . Been there and seen it .
peace and good luck clammy

THETRUCK454

Looks like the Lochinvar Noble boiler can take either a aquastat or a tank sensor. 






The Wel McLain Auua Plus indirect looks to use a tank sensor hooked up to a digital aquastat.  Would it make sense I could just wire the tank sensor right into the Lochinvar Noble and skip the Weil McLain controller ?  With all 24v thermostat/aquastat does the signal correlate tho temperature the same? 

hot_rod

I prefer to run the indirect from the boiler control. That way you have all the data and readouts in one controller

THETRUCK454

hot_rod said:

I prefer to run the indirect from the boiler control. That way you have all the data and readouts in one controller

Yea that was my plan, just wasn't sure if I needed anything else or I could tie the Weil McLain Aqua Plus right into the boiler by not using the included digital readout

hot_rod

You need the Weil tank sensor, which I think is a Honeywell that you can get at Johnstone Supply for less $$

THETRUCK454

To being this back up I'm changing gears on which brand indirect and going with the Bradford & White SS Powerstor. It comes with an immersion Honeywell aquastat.  I am unclear on what is required to switch that out for a tank sensor.  

Alan (California Radiant) Forbes

If you have a Lochinvar boiler, didn’t you say that it can take either a sensor or aquastat?

If you want to go with a sensor, get one from Lochinvar. 

hot_rod

If you want to use the aquastat that comes with the tank, wire as shown in the manual pin 7&8

If you want to use a sensor, which you need to purchase, wire as shown

If you use the sensor, pull the aquastat out of the tank and insert the optional sensor. If you use the sensor, the boiler control runs the tank

which option do you want to use

Zman

The sensor will have an Ohm rating. Generally, if the rating is the same between 2 manufactures they will work interchangeably. If you go with the one supplied by the boiler manufacture you don’t need to think about it, it will just work.

EdTheHeaterMan

This is not Rocket Surgery. The temperature sensor can be the aquastat supplied by the tank manufacturer, or the thermistor supplied by the boiler manufacturer. The location is the same for either sensor. That location is where the tank manufacturer places the aquastat.

Hope this helps

THETRUCK454

I understood the wiring aspect, it was just unclear on the physical aspect.  I just doubted it was as simple as unthread/remove aquastat and install the tank sensor.  Sounds like it is that simple.

hot_rod

Heat Flo is one of the few brands that offers high performance dual coil tank. If you need a lot of performance in a small tank, the amount of coil surface is the key.

They also show performance output with boiler SWT a low a 120f!

When comparing look at entering water temperature, boiler SWT, gpm flow rate, and coil surface area.

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mattmia2

HTP also makes solar series tanks with 2 coils. I think that last response before HotRod was a bot.

Zman

That aquastat will pop right off with a set screw or clip. There is a capillary bulb on the back that slides into a dry socket. Hopefully the new sensor is the same diameter and slides into the dry well. If it is too small, they make bushings to give it good contact. You can make something work without touching the wet part of the tank.