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Seeking feedback on new TRV

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We've been working for some time on a new one-pipe steam TRV that we'll be launching this summer. We're completing the packaging design and other final parts and I'd love to hear from anyone interested in giving us feedback on the product in return for early access / free samples / eternal gratitude etc etc.

In particular, I'd like to hear feedback on:
  • Whether or not to include the vent inside the packaging with the valve.
  • Review and feedback on our installation instructions.
  • Feedback on usage and efficiency gains once installed.
If you're interested, please let me know!

With thanks in advance
Nick Baylis
Castrads
PC7060BrycewvuControlsgirl
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Comments

  • Sylvain
    Sylvain Member Posts: 120
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    Feedback on installation instructions might be different whether
    - from somebody familiar with this site; or
    - from a lambda DIYer.

    What i don't like is things coming without instructions and only a link to a web site (where, sometime, instructions can not be found).
    Although additional informations on a web site are welcome.
    jamplumb
  • dko
    dko Member Posts: 589
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    In big demand: color finish matching vents
    MarjPinard
  • Nick_Castrads
    Nick_Castrads Member Posts: 51
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    @Sylvain noted about getting the register right for the audience. Thanks for the point about immediacy of info - I know exactly what you mean. 

    @dko really interesting - thanks for the suggestion. Definitely something we can look into. 
  • Waher
    Waher Member Posts: 250
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    Air vents provided sized to radiator Capacity?

    Matching the vent finishes to the TRV finishes would be lovely.
  • Nick_Castrads
    Nick_Castrads Member Posts: 51
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    @Waher at the moment we provide Maid o Mist vents with our existing TRVs with the switchable vent sizes to allow for all radiator capacities.

    The big question we're debating internally right now is whether to include the vent inside the packaging with the TRV or to have the vent as an optional add on.

    On the one hand, I know many plumbers will prefer to use one brand or another of vent. On the other, putting the Maid o' Mist in the box with the valve keeps things simple and ensures people understand that it's necessary. We have known TRVs to be installed before without a vent (and these are not even DIY jobs...)
    MaidOMist1932
  • Nick_Castrads
    Nick_Castrads Member Posts: 51
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    Very good, thanks Dan. In the box it is! Much appreciated.
  • DanHolohan
    DanHolohan Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 16,525
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    Thanks 
    Retired and loving it.
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,671
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    We've been working for some time on a new one-pipe steam TRV that we'll be launching this summer. We're completing the packaging design and other final parts and I'd love to hear from anyone interested in giving us feedback on the product in return for early access / free samples / eternal gratitude etc etc.

    In particular, I'd like to hear feedback on:

    • Whether or not to include the vent inside the packaging with the valve.
    • Review and feedback on our installation instructions.
    • Feedback on usage and efficiency gains once installed.
    If you're interested, please let me know!

    With thanks in advance
    Nick Baylis
    Castrads
    I'd love to see the instructions and could give some feedback if necessary.
    I think the MOM with multiple orifices is a really good idea.

    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
    delcrossvCLambMaidOMist1932
  • Nick_Castrads
    Nick_Castrads Member Posts: 51
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    Thanks @ChrisJ. We haven't written them yet but really appreciate the offer to review. Will be in touch when we have - a week or two I should think.
    CLamb
  • Neild5
    Neild5 Member Posts: 167
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    I agree on the single source concept.   And please let me know when available,  I would like to test them.
  • Brycewvu
    Brycewvu Member Posts: 27
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    @Nick_Castrads I would be very interested in helping with feedback. I have been making progress on my new to me house and I've been looking at TRVs as an option to help with efficiency.

    I just replaced several vents throughout my house and spent ages searching any local(northeast MD) shop or supplier for steam vents with no success. I turned to the internet as my only option which has seemed to work out well after some detailed research on what to order. I agree that having everything in a nicely formatted kit would be great and the interchangeable vent sizes would be a huge plus.

    As for the instructions, I'd be happy to review them. Im not a steam pro but I'd like to consider myself a bit more knowledgeable (great thanks to everyone here) than Harry Homeowner. I still like pictures though! Haha

    I'd love to be involved!
  • Nick_Castrads
    Nick_Castrads Member Posts: 51
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    @Neild5 thanks for the feedback and for your offer to test. Could you let me know your email address by sending it to me at nick@castrads.com?

    @Brycewvu thanks also for your offer! Really appreciate it. And Heating Help is such a great community, isn't it. Could you also send me your email address at nick@castrads.com?

    We'll have a first draft of instructions available for criitique within a few days. Thanks again to all for your generosity.
  • RayWohlfarth
    RayWohlfarth Member Posts: 1,481
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    Now you've really piqued my curiosity. Will it be on the vent connection like this? Is it on the inlet? If so, how will air get out the other side of the radiator?
    Ray Wohlfarth
    Boiler Lessons
  • Miringanes
    Miringanes Member Posts: 9
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    We've been working for some time on a new one-pipe steam TRV that we'll be launching this summer. We're completing the packaging design and other final parts and I'd love to hear from anyone interested in giving us feedback on the product in return for early access / free samples / eternal gratitude etc etc. In particular, I'd like to hear feedback on:
    • Whether or not to include the vent inside the packaging with the valve.
    • Review and feedback on our installation instructions.
    • Feedback on usage and efficiency gains once installed.
    If you're interested, please let me know! With thanks in advance Nick Baylis Castrads
    I would love to test the new TRV!  

    I also echo others comments about including the vent in the package. I don’t know of a trv on the market that includes one and even if it increases cost a bit, it will differentiate your offering and could in turn make it more of a casual DIY product. 
  • drfosters
    drfosters Member Posts: 2
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    Hey,

    Definitely interested in testing and feedback. 

    Vent should be included and will reduce issues with HO installation in the lond run.


  • Waher
    Waher Member Posts: 250
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    Will this TRV have an integral vacuum breaker or will users have to install one of your 1” plug replacement ones?
  • KevinRyan
    KevinRyan Member Posts: 1
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    I also like everything to be in one package. Only issue could be on service tech side when they need to replace just the air vent , they will then take the vent from the package that is a complete kit . Having the two separate can help when replacing the valve or vent separately.
    Controlsgirl
  • peters
    peters Member Posts: 2
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    Nick-have an 1890s farmhouse with one pipe steam throughout. I would love to try out the TRV and provide feedback. Especially interested in trying to better balance heating in rooms that are now insulated. Re: packaging - keep your packaging costs down by not including the vent in the package, but stand alone separately-also-support documentation - put QR codes on the packaging and documentation to simplify access to your web documentation. - Peter
    Long Beach Ed
  • mike212
    mike212 Member Posts: 50
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    @Nick_Castrads Hi - I'm interested in testing an providing feedback. Regarding the vent being included, many will prefer to use their own favorite so including it might put your product at a pricing disadvantage. If it doesn't create too much complexity for you operationally I would offer a with vent package and a without vent package.
  • GregWeiss
    GregWeiss Member Posts: 30
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    Interested.   I have about 200 single pipe radiators under management.  
  • Long Beach Ed
    Long Beach Ed Member Posts: 1,202
    edited March 21
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    Nick, We have dozens of Danfloss units in the buildings we own and install them from time to time in places we service. As engineers, we specify equipment such as these, generally to landlords who want good quality trouble free devices.

    We don't work with homeowners and our bar is high for quality. In our case, Maid-O-mist vents wouldn't work. But we're not the average buyer, so you have to determine your target market. You can't make everyone happy, but if your valve is great quality and not some Chinese knock-off, those seeking good quality will compromise on other particulars. We also deal with lots of government work - the type concerned with "county of origin".

    It will be interesting the see your new product. There is nothing out there that is "user friendly" for do-it-yourselves or "consumers". While their operation is simple, most TRV's require quite a bit of research to figure out, and that's before the units are even purchased! The instruction sheets that are provided are almost useless to the uninformed.

    Another problem we've encountered is installing one pipe TRV vents where steam quality is poor. Good luck with that. Perhaps your product will have some improved drainage or "condensate handling" properties over those that are available? We usually don't require vacuum breakers on them, but in some troublesome installations they are problem solvers. Would also be nice to have an adjustment with Fahrenheit markings.

    Just our two cents. Good luck with the product. Your radiators are a blessing to the industry. Nice to see someone with resources investing in steam!

    - Eddie, in Long Beach, NY

    reggi
  • GregM
    GregM Member Posts: 8
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    Hi Nick, DIYer here. I echo other's comments about including an air vent (vacuum breaker?) and instructions. I've got two TRVs in use in my one-pipe system, and they have been really helpful (old kitchen and small bedroom that now has a lot more insulation than the original design.) My biggest "usability" gripe is the numbering system, 1 - 5 etc. If it's possible, having that dial in "max degrees F / C" would be a big help for others in my family. Happy to try them out if you need more beta testers!
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,671
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    I highly doubt you'll ever seen temperature markings on a mass produced device that uses a wax motor.

    The way I set mine is by letting them sit in a room that's roughly the temperature I want and then try to blow through it while turning the adjustment. I expect it to start throttling the flow at the proper set temperature and use that as a starting point.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
    Controlsgirl
  • DavidK_2
    DavidK_2 Member Posts: 131
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    I'm very interested in trying one. I think 3 of them would be useful. I'll send you PM
  • Nick_Castrads
    Nick_Castrads Member Posts: 51
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    @RoyWohlfarth thanks for asking. Functionally it's very similar to the Danfoss TRV which is an excellent product in my opinon. We've worked on ensuring that there can be no spitting / pooling and of course finessing the styling. The conduit between radiator and vent is pitched to ensure proper drainage with no depressions where water could pool.
  • Nick_Castrads
    Nick_Castrads Member Posts: 51
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    @Waher it's got an integral vacuum breaker - that was one of the biggest drivers for iterating on from our current design.
    Waher
  • Controlsgirl
    Controlsgirl Member Posts: 13
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    I would love to help you out! How do I reach you if you're still doing the research?
  • Nick_Castrads
    Nick_Castrads Member Posts: 51
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    @drfosters, @KevinRyan, @peters thank you all for your comments. Really useful! We've decided to include the MoM vent inside the packaging but the pricing will be similar to the Danfoss product sold without vent.
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,671
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    @Nick_Castrads

    Is it going to look sexy like other Castrads products?

    I haven't seen any mention of that.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • Nick_Castrads
    Nick_Castrads Member Posts: 51
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    @mike212 thanks for your comments. We have to choose one or the other for mass purchasing of the packaging so we've decided to go with the vent, but it'll be a similar price to those sold without.
  • DanHolohan
    DanHolohan Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 16,525
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    Nick, this can’t miss. Thanks. 
    Retired and loving it.
    Nick_Castrads
  • Nick_Castrads
    Nick_Castrads Member Posts: 51
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    @GregWeiss that's great, thank you. Will shoot you a message to get your email.
  • Nick_Castrads
    Nick_Castrads Member Posts: 51
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    @Long Beach Ed That's really useful. Thanks so much for your comments. My initial preference was to not include the vent for the exact reasons you mentioned, but both on this forum and internally at Castrads it seems I'm very much in the minority so we've gone with inclusion, but of course we can always remove it from the box if we need to.

    Noted about wet steam - we did create a pitched conduit with no pooling possibility and our trials so far have been pretty good. There's nowhere for condensate to sit - very interested to see how the tests work out. We also lengthened the neck between the body and vent tapping.
    Long Beach EdWaher
  • Nick_Castrads
    Nick_Castrads Member Posts: 51
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    @GregM would love to but as @ChrisJ says, with a wax sensor the absolute temperature is very difficult to calibrate. I don't think we could do it reliably with this mechanism. We have however designed the body to be able to acccept a smart TRV head with electric motor and offset sensor inn the future (but we're years and years off that!)
    GregM
  • Nick_Castrads
    Nick_Castrads Member Posts: 51
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    @DavidK_2 thanks for your interest. Will PM you for email address.
  • JoeEngineer
    JoeEngineer Member Posts: 16
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    Nick,
    I have been looking for TRV's for a small apartment building: 17 radiators on a one pipe system. I would be glad to test yours out; send me the details on how to get them: eEngineering@optonline.net.

    Thank you,
    Joseph DiSisto, PE
  • Steve_210
    Steve_210 Member Posts: 646
    edited March 21
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    I would definitely be interested in trying one out the major problem we have we don’t have access to the Boiler room (at least we cannot adjust the cut in/out pressure.
    Mixed results
  • MaidOMist1932
    MaidOMist1932 Member Posts: 2
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    @mike212 thanks for your comments. We have to choose one or the other for mass purchasing of the packaging so we've decided to go with the vent, but it'll be a similar price to those sold without.

    Hey Nick. I really appreciate the shout out to Maid O' Mist on this thread. I work for the company and recently created this MOM account. I believe there's a possibility that we could plate the Jacobus Vent to match the TRV. I'd like to chat with you on the idea. I also really appreciate others on this chain mentioning our ye olde company. FYI - we are rare breed these days, one of the very few manufacturing vents in the USA, Arlington Heights, IL to be exact. I can be reached at brian@maidmist.com. Thank you.
    Maid O' Mist Customer Service - contact@maidmist.com
    ethicalpauldko
  • DanHolohan
    DanHolohan Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 16,525
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    Thanks for being here!
    Retired and loving it.
    MaidOMist1932DavidK_2