Replacement options - old style (automotive) cast iron radiator

jbukacek55

Most of the radiators in my house are of the style shown. On one of them I was able to find a Modine sticker with patent date from the 1920s. They all have metal covers with vents (not shown).

I have a hot water system (two pipe). I am looking to replace some of them with the more standard standing cast iron radiators, mostly for aesthetics (the covers are bulky and ugly) but also to save a little space (less wide). But I am not sure how to size appropriately. Length I am limited since the pipes coming up from the floor cannot be moved, so the new cast iron radiators will need to sit between the pipes. Height I also am limited (I want them to come up to the window so about 18-22"). Width can be a variable to adjust the heat output.

For the picture shown, the radiator measures 40"x13"x2.5" LxWxH

How can I estimate the output of the existing radiators so I can buy an equivalent standing cast iron radiator? Any other concerns? I have one other standing cast iron radiator on the system (closest to the boiler in the basement).

Jamie Hall

Somebody will come up with a number -- but as a rough comment, in the proper enclosure those things put out a LOT of heat.

bburd

Cast-iron radiators hold heat for much longer than those convectors do. If you only have one heating zone you will either need to change them all, or zone the areas with cast-iron separately from those with convectors. If you don't, the rooms with cast-iron will overheat compared to the others. I have seen this happen many times. Too many contractors don't know better.

Big Ed_4

I am surprised it existed and survived .....

mattmia2

You can probably find an old modine cataloge and find the output or edr rating of those convector cabinets. Like @bburd said, mixing cast iron and convectors on the same zone will be very difficult to impossible to balance because of the different characteristics of how they heat and cool.

Steamhead

@jbukacek55 , if you get @DanHolohan 's book "E.D.R.", the Modine ratings are in there, starting on page 223:

https://www.heatinghelp.com/store/detail/e-d-r-ratings-for-every-darn-radiator-and-convector-youll-probably-ever-see/

mattmia2

that is really an enormous convector element.

jbukacek55

Hoping I can replace with this one 

20x30x12 HxLxW

jbukacek55

bburd said:

Cast-iron radiators hold heat for much longer than those convectors do. If you only have one heating zone you will either need to change them all, or zone the areas with cast-iron separately from those with convectors. If you don't, the rooms with cast-iron will overheat compared to the others. I have seen this happen many times. Too many contractors don't know better.

I am thinking this is less of a concern because the radiator in question is located in the dining room on the first floor, which is pretty wide open space. The dining room opens into the living room and kitchen (we took down a wall between kitchen and dining room from original floor plan). So it's not a closed off individual room that will overheat relative to the rest of the house.... but maybe it's still a dumb idea???

bburd

I still wouldn't do it if I were you. I would build a nice looking cabinet around that, designed like the original cabinets in terms of airflow, but better looking, and easily removable for maintenance.

mattmia2

It is probably less of an issue if the convectors are controlling the t-stat than if the t-stat were in an area with the CI radiator.

jbukacek55

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1795438#Comment_1795438

Do you think I would be OK with a wood cabinet (red oak), or would I need to worry about warping due to heat at all? Currently there are original steel enclosures but my wife does not like them (not does she want to considered repainting them). I never notice them getting hot fwiw. These are what they look like currently for reference:

ChrisJ

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1800563#Comment_1800563

You need to picture the cabinet you're building as a chimney. The taller it is, the more output you're going to get, within reason. I'm sure there's a point where it stops being practical to increase it but I have no idea what it is.

The one in your picture may work well assuming it's fairly snug (don't go crazy) around the convector.

If I was doing it I'd look at what the original enclosures looked and try to copy it as far as dimensions and openings. As long as you're similar to those they will work and you can make them look as pretty as you want. Make sure you adjust the thickness for the wood and keep the inside of the cover snug to the convector so it can pull a decent draft through it rather than around it.

bburd

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1800563#Comment_1800563

I don't know enough about woodworking to say whether red oak would be suitable.

EdTheHeaterMan

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1794979#Comment_1794979

This is a scientific fact. I posted about it earlier a few years ago click on the bottom to reveal the interesting facts about Cast Iron

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1709810#Comment_1709810

Regarding a wooden cover. I think you will do just fine with the proper design. The woodworker needs to know what it is being used for and that the temperature near the wood can rise upwards to 140°. That is not enough to start a fire but is will dry out the wood in a few short years. The joints and panels will need room to expand and contract as the seasons change. A woodworker that knows about proper joinery and how to use different species of lumber that will work well under those conditions can build something that will last. here is one video I like.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gs8BtqKeGik

The vertical look is nice and the spaces can be made wider to allow more air flow.

tim smith

just do load calcs per room, see what physical size radiators will fit each locations height, width and meet the calcs you come up with for each room at say the lowest water temp that will meet load. I would add appx 15-20% to room load for for sizing radiator. Then start hunting down radiators. May be tough to find cast rads that will put out as much as those convectors if you need to stay in the pipe spread dimensions.
Good luck.

Tim

retiredguy

If you do a search for "Beacon Morris Convectors" you can down load a catalog that will show everything you ever wanted to know about convectors. Just look up your convector size and "Shazam", like magic, there is the information you are looking for.

mattmia2

Paint or varnish all the surfaces of the wood, inside and out and the back and bottom. If it is sealed up on all sides it will absorb moisture and dry our more slowly and evenly.

hot_rod

looks like this company sells kits or finished product

https://fichman.com/radiator_covers.html