Opinion on Pipe Runs in a Kitchen Remodel

nSTP

Installer laid the pipes yesterday and I'm interested in opinions on the job. It looks really sloppy to me and doesn't look like anything I've seen online. Also, there is a union in one of the pipes which If found interesting.

KC_Jones

Any idea what tubing they used? That doesn't look like any pex I've ever seen. It's brand new, why would they be using a union joint like that? Tubing comes in rolls plenty long enough to not have a joint on a brand new install.

I agree it looks sloppy, and the spacing is all over the place which could impact performance of the floor creating warmer and cooler areas.

What's with the expanded metal? Are they doing a gypcrete overpour I assume?

Did they do a heatloss and design for the room? What's in your estimate with respect to materials and design and such?

I'd be stopping work at this point, this doesn't look right in any way. Hopefully some of the pros will be along soon for more opinions. Just a fellow homeowner here.

hot_rod

Certainly not a picture perfect tube installation.
It looks to be on a tile mesh of some sort, is it going to be a mudset, or gyp pour?

Gyp is usually poured over a sealer /adhesive, look like Elmers glue
Concrete is over a slip sheet like 6 mil plastic.

key to success is a load calc and design assuring you have adequate tube in the space

I like a 6 or 8” spacing to keep supply temperature low and for fast recovery. Although tight spacing may nit be needed for heat load

GroundUp

That's incredibly sloppy, and it also looks like the tubing is too large for this application (though it may be an optical illusion). It appears to be Viega barrier pex so it's acceptable material, but being pex-b it's more susceptible to kinking especially if it's larger than 1/2" diameter which is most likely the reason for the coupling. If this were my home, I'd be stopping them immediately. I obviously don't know what your contract/agreement consists of, so maybe there's nothing you can do, but I would not accept this mess.

dko

In a perfect world there wouldn't be couplings, but practically unavoidable. Could have used up a roll and continued on with a new roll. Or had a nick in it so they cut and continued. Wouldn't worry about the coupling.

It's probably viegapex, but confused by the white stripe on the pex tubing after that coupling. as it should be red stripes only. take a photo of the text on the red stripe pex and the white stripe pex?

Just have slight suspicion it's not viegapex but pe tubing like https://landscapeproductsinc.com/product/lp710-1-2-inch-red-stripe-drip-tubing-500-foot-roll/

But the text on the tubing will tell

nSTP

hot_rod said:

Certainly not a picture perfect tube installation.
It looks to be on a tile mesh of some sort, is it going to be a mudset, or gyp pour?

Gyp is usually poured over a sealer /adhesive, look like Elmers glue
Concrete is over a slip sheet like 6 mil plastic.

key to success is a load calc and design assuring you have adequate tube in the space

I like a 6 or 8” spacing to keep supply temperature low and for fast recovery. Although tight spacing may nit be needed for heat load

This is part of a much larger remodel project and I don't think I have the details I need on the heated floor. This is what I see ...
"Install 1/2" heating pex on top of sub floor. Base bid assumes mud/tile to cover pextubing."

I will take some close up pics of the tubing in a couple minutes and post.

nSTP

Confirmed that it is Viega Oxygen Barrier Pex 1/2 inch. What looked like a white stripe after the union was actually the text shown below ...

hot_rod

The tube is correct, the installation is questionable. I suspect it will heat the space, but if the workmanship bothers you....
I think Viega wants you to wrap a splice that is embedded in concrete? Tape or a heat shrink cover.

dko

Yes, fittings must be wrapped in concrete

https://www.supplyhouse.com/Viega-15320-Repair-Coupling-Tape-for-PEX-Press-Fittings
https://www.supplyhouse.com/Cash-Acme-25406-CASH-ACME-10-x-2-X-0-02-Silicone-Wrap

Prefer a sleeve though.

Mad Dog_2

You don't want that joint in the slab.  No reason on a new install...guys cutting corners.  Very sloppy tubing layout. Is this guy a plumber?  GC? DIY?  Mad Dog 🐕 

ethicalpaul

Not DIY, nice try @Mad Dog_2

Steve Thompson (Taco)

Is there a manifold somewhere? What's the longest run of tubing (I see too many older jobs where there is one long run)?

dko

Accidents happen like a misplaced fastener or pipe nicked in transit. Wonder how many of you would pull out 200ft(made up number) of already installed and fastened pex, throw it away and start over from the beginning? Wrapped/sleeved pex fittings in concrete is a legitimate repair. Just unfortunate on a new install.

If OP insisted on a repipe (in the imaginary world it was an otherwise perfect installation) to get rid of the coupling, would it be correct for the contractor to rebill? Honest question.

Let us know how the discussion goes with the installer, if you do bring it up.

Mad Dog_2

Did the guys name happen to be Paul? Ha ha 😂 🤣 😆 😄 😅 Mad Dog 🐕 

nSTP

Steve Thompson (Taco) said:

Is there a manifold somewhere? What's the longest run of tubing (I see too many older jobs where there is one long run)?

I am measuring approximately 350' on a single run. Is this a problem as well?

hot_rod

It comes in 300' coils. Unless someone splices additional length onto a coil. Footage is typically stamped on the tube.

350 is about as long as you want to go, 300 is the recommended length by the RPA design.
What you have is workable. 2- 200' loops would have been my choice to get tighter spacing, more consistent floor surface temperature and and less flow restriction.

psb75

It generally is a shame to skimp on pipe by not dividing the loops appropriately. Aim towards "more pipe". And not necessarily "longer loops." "Similar loops"...is the ideal.

nSTP

Thanks for everybody's help on this. I had the plumbers remove and re-run the pipes. They look a lot better now, maybe not perfect, but a lot better. No more unions anymore either.

psb75

Nicely done on your part. Thanks for follow-up pics. Input from the forum, aided you in negotiations with plumbers for improved results. Now your project has better value and hopefully improved potential for better performance.
Concrete..."seals the deal."

dko

That's a night and day difference, hard to believe it was the same person??