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Anyone ever seen this style steam rad?

JXH
JXH Member Posts: 3
edited January 30 in Strictly Steam
They look very cool, but I can't find info on them anywhere. Trying to calculate square footage of EDR and though I could try to use something similar, these are pretty d*mn unique!


WMno57Robmellow62

Comments

  • BobC
    BobC Member Posts: 5,473
    First time I've seen that style, looks like it could have been used as a wall unit without the end sections.
    Smith G8-3 with EZ Gas @ 90,000 BTU, Single pipe steam
    Vaporstat with a 12oz cut-out and 4oz cut-in
    3PSI gauge
  • SgtMaj
    SgtMaj Member Posts: 74
    Those are some good looking radiators.
    delcrossv
  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 6,711
    No, get as close as you can on charts.  Gorgeous..what State and City is that in?  Mad Dog 🐕 
    Long Beach Ed
  • JXH
    JXH Member Posts: 3
    This is in a church in Baltimore, MD. The church was sold to the Seventh-Day Adventist church back in 1950. It was originally a Hebrew Temple.
    Mad Dog_2
  • delcrossv
    delcrossv Member Posts: 669
    Very cool!
    Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.
  • guzzinerd
    guzzinerd Member Posts: 226
    Amazing
    Bryant 245-8 2-pipe steam in a 1930s 6-unit 1-story apt building in the NM mountains.  26 radiators heating up 3800sqf.
    WilliamShanahan
  • Theo_G
    Theo_G Member Posts: 6
    That has to be in the top 10 of the most beautiful radiators I have ever seen. I agree that it looks like a "special edition" Clogston of some type. The pyramidal legs give it away. The radiators with textures to increase the surface area have always been some of my favorites. At my old house I had a Whittier. The bottom one with inline sections is really quite something, love how the diamond pattern rolls over the top. Would love to find one for my back parlor, it has a tube type that looks entirely wrong for the house.
  • JXH
    JXH Member Posts: 3
    I agree, it is one of the most unique rads I have ever seen! Very cool. Thanks for the info everyone.
  • gerry gill
    gerry gill Member Posts: 3,078
    Thats a real work of art!!
    gwgillplumbingandheating.com
    Serving Cleveland's eastern suburbs from Cleveland Heights down to Cuyahoga Falls.

    Mad Dog_2
  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 6,711
    Clogston?????  The Hydronic Savant strikes again!!  Steamhead is unreal....Mad Dog 🐕 
    Mark Eatherton
  • Tom Sherman
    Tom Sherman Member Posts: 18
    Very cool!
  • SKYPAINTER
    SKYPAINTER Member Posts: 5
    I'll play devils advocate here. We Americans preach to one another about the need for high efficient everything, from our electric appliances, automobiles and most especially our heating/cooling systems. Then we come across these antiquated steam systems with their 100+ year old radiators and we just seem to forget about efficiency because the rads look so "neat" or "artistic" and it seems we must keep them in service no matter what. These systems represent an era long, long gone!! It's time to update that old steam system to something more efficient, that goes for ALL steam, everywhere except perhaps in an industrial application that requires steam like mushroom farms or papermills. Yes, it might cost an arm & leg but isn't our future worth that? It's not going to get any cheaper!! If you really love those old radiators, pull them out and put them in a museum where they belong on display for the by-gone times of ancient
    heating. Bra-ha-ha-ha!!
    delcrossvDave in QCAreggiGordopsb75
  • Long Beach Ed
    Long Beach Ed Member Posts: 1,188
    edited February 22
    I'll often gladly forgo efficiency for better aesthetics. I don't mind a small percentage of my money going up in smoke. And I don't subscribe to "the science" about "climate change".

    We each have choices to make. This is a personal choice. I like my radiators old, iron and pretty.

    "Remove not the ancient landmark which thy father hath set..."
  • Robmellow62
    Robmellow62 Member Posts: 1
    We have 2 radiators like the last picture, the silver one, at one of our Metro Nashville buildings, built late 1800s.  They were/are beautiful as well as functional 
    Grallert
  • BobC
    BobC Member Posts: 5,473
    Going over to heatpumps is fine IF your power delivery is rock solid and affordable. In my area electricity costs 4X that of natural gas and that pretty much tells me they are going to have a hard time being a practical replacement untill things change. . I think heatpumps are great for cooling and supplemental heating but just impractical if rely on them alone in areas like this.

    It's better toupgrade a homes air sealing and insulation so it takes less energy.
    Smith G8-3 with EZ Gas @ 90,000 BTU, Single pipe steam
    Vaporstat with a 12oz cut-out and 4oz cut-in
    3PSI gauge
    Long Beach Ed
  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 5,606
    In my area electricity costs 4X that of natural gas


    Curious, what does this mean?
    NJ Steam Homeowner. See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el
  • delcrossv
    delcrossv Member Posts: 669

    In my area electricity costs 4X that of natural gas


    Curious, what does this mean?
    Easy conversion: One Therm (US) = 100,000 BTU59°F = 105,480,400 joules = 29.3001111 kWh.
    Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.
  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 5,606
    edited February 22
    But you weren't the one who said his electricity is 4x the cost of natural gas...I was wondering what it meant to him.

    I just looked at my bill to compare.

    My gas is $1.04 per therm (this includes supply and delivery charges)

    My electric is $5.59 per therm (again, includes supply and delivery)

    It sounds bad but that comparison would be like me having a 100% efficient gas boiler vs heating my house with toasters.
    NJ Steam Homeowner. See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el
  • delcrossv
    delcrossv Member Posts: 669
    edited February 22

    But you weren't the one who said his electricity is 4x the cost of natural gas...I was wondering what it meant to him.

    Just saying that's how I'd make the comparison. $/therm vs $/kWh. Gas is considerably cheaper here as well.
    Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.
    ethicalpaul
  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 7,563

    In my area electricity costs 4X that of natural gas


    Curious, what does this mean?
    I am going to take a guess here Paul
    My father has a home that was identical to the homes on either side of the home. The neighbor to the left owned an electrical supply business and displayed a medallion that claimed his home was "All Electric"

    The neighbor to the right was heated by a gas boiler

    Being an oil dealer, our home was heated by oil.

    So my father asked if the neighbors would be kind enough to share their heating bills with him for comparison of heating 3 identical homes using 3 different fuel sources.

    The "All Electric Medallion" home was offered a reduced rate for electricity. So the comparison was a bit tainted on the electric side, However out of the three homes, the electric heated home with the special rate was still more expensive to heat than in the Gas or Oil heated home. (comparison was in the 1960s in Philadelphia county)


    So I'm guessing that @BobC has a means to compare heating with electric resistance and fossil fuel, and the price difference was a factor of 4. Like $100.00 of electricity did the same job as $25.00 of Gas. That would mean that you need a heat pump with a COP of 4 for electric to be equal to Gas heat,


    But this is only a guess.
    And it is a fact that 64.2% of statistics are made up.... I know that because I just made this one up!
    Edward F Young. Retired HVAC ContractorSpecialized in Residential Oil Burner and Hydronics
    dabrakemanLong Beach Ed
  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 5,606
    I guess I should have said "what does this mean to you, @BobC ?"
    NJ Steam Homeowner. See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el
  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 7,563
    I will be the Devil’s Opponent @SKYPAINTER
    Steam boilers in homes are for the most part an 80% to 85% AFUE fossil fuel appliances. Electric steam boilers are 100% efficient. However, that does not take into account that the delivery system is much more efficient. The amount of energy stored in just one pound of water (that is slightly over one pint) when it is converted to steam is over 950 BTU. That is called Latent Heat. Explained simply: to convert one pound of 212°F water at sea level into 100% steam at 212°F takes 970 BTU of energy. That is where the efficiency of steam happens. That is because it is so easy to move that steam from the source to the emitter without any other mechanical devices. Just a small pressure difference at one end of a pipe will move all that heat to the destination very efficiently. In some cases only a few ounces of pressure are all that is needed.

    Add to your argument that radiators can be heated by water. And there are some devices that heat water with amazing efficiencies exceeding to 97% AFUE in some cases. Your blatant disregard for a heating emitter that has both function and beauty is by some standards satanic. But being his advocate, you may take that as a complement.
    Edward F Young. Retired HVAC ContractorSpecialized in Residential Oil Burner and Hydronics
    delcrossvGrallertLong Beach EdChicagoCooperator
  • Dave in QCA
    Dave in QCA Member Posts: 1,785
    @SKYPAINTER Your comment was made under the premise of being the "devil's advocate". On that basis, you are well qualified. However, you seemed to be not so qualified on the basis of science or engineering, other than the assumption that "new is good and old is bad".

    If you are going to figure "efficiency", you need to know on what basis you are figuring. On the basis of amount of heat coming out of a radiator compared to the amount going in, the efficiency of the radiator is 100%. Yes, 100% efficient.
    Dave in Quad Cities, America
    Weil-McLain 680 with Riello 2-stage burner, December 2012. Firing rate=375MBH Low, 690MBH Hi.
    System = Early Dunham 2-pipe Vacuo-Vapor (inlet and outlet both at bottom of radiators) Traps are Dunham #2 rebuilt w. Barnes-Jones Cage Units, Dunham-Bush 1E, Mepco 1E, and Armstrong TS-2. All valves haveTunstall orifices sized at 8 oz.
    Current connected load EDR= 1,259 sq ft, Original system EDR = 2,100 sq ft Vaporstat, 13 oz cutout, 4 oz cutin - Temp. control Tekmar 279.
    http://grandviewdavenport.com
    PRR
  • NJ08534
    NJ08534 Member Posts: 12
    Hmmmm.   I think Skypainter is right. We should think of the future and make all new things as efficient as possible both in energy and materials consumption. We should also dump all that old stuff that’s not as efficient as the new, regardless of aesthetics or form.

    I propose we follow Skypainters remarks to remove steam because it’s not as efficient as it could be.  Logically, according to this concept, we must build all new buildings with an interior curling height of 7’2 because very few humans are taller than this and it is a waste of heating space and constriction materials. Next, just as we are retrofitting/ replacing those old aesthetic radiators to museums, we must change the height of each floor in all existing buildings to 7’2. This will make them more efficient too. We can make the ceiling heights of museum floors higher of course because we will be using those to enjoy aesthetics and display aesthetic objects. 

    Next we can limit the numbers and varieties of paints that is produced and applied.  We don’t need so many and paint is really only aesthetic in purpose. Much more efficient to have only a few colors, say yellow, beige and green.  We can toss the others for the sake of energy efficiency. We can perhaps use some special colors to paint those radiators in the museums but that is a topic of further discussion. 

     Next we should replaces all passenger vehicles That have more than 5 seats or get less than 40 miles per gallon. They are not efficient and they pollute too much. Most of the time, cars with even five seats have only one person in them. Why take 4500 pounds of steel and rubber to work every day and place it in an asphalt filled for 8’hours and then drive it home when you could just do the same with only 2900 lbs of steel and rubber. 

    Hey as a matter of fact, let's get rid of all those combustion autos and replaces them with electric autos. Only 30% of the energy burned in a gas car is is used in locomotion compare to about 80% on a gas
    electric battery car.  (One reason why their cost per mile per drive is so much less than a gas car…)

    Or maybe, just maybe, a few steam boilers and a few gas cars and a few 9’ cielings can remain in service for a while….   As long as we continue to build solar and wind and perhaps (safer, new) nuclear designs as rapidly as possible….  
    Long Beach Ed
  • NJ08534
    NJ08534 Member Posts: 12
    PS  sorry for the typos…. Big thumbs here after a day twisting iron!  

    I love this radiators!!  Need to source a set!!!  :-1:


    Long Beach Ed
  • PRR
    PRR Member Posts: 94
    > Trying to calculate square footage of EDR
    The top one: is it like 24" tall and 6" deep? Then one side of each unit is 24"*6" or 2'*0.5' or one square foot. Two sides so 2sf/unit. 7 units so 7*2sf is 14sf per assembly. Yes there are "fins" but not like a WWII aircraft engine (thin/deep). Almost more for looks and to damp the klang. It's probably not going to double the surface area. I'd dartboard a factor like 1.5 so about 21 square feet per assembly. (That's remarkably like the number in the ribbed-and-ringed-radiator-ratings doc cited here; do you suppose some Dead Man used a similar process to prepare that listing instead of actually testing every model?)
    Your lower model may be more decorative than high-BTU. 5 or 10 square feet?
  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 16,723
    JXH said:

    This is in a church in Baltimore, MD. The church was sold to the Seventh-Day Adventist church back in 1950. It was originally a Hebrew Temple.

    @JXH , if you need some help with this system, let me know.
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Towson, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
    Larry Weingarten
  • Sylvain
    Sylvain Member Posts: 45
    edited February 24
    @SKYPAINTER

    I'll play devils advocate here. We Americans preach to one another about the need for high efficient everything, from our electric appliances, automobiles and most especially our heating/cooling systems.


    One should think about the rebound effect of optimisation.
    read about the Jevons paradox and rebound effect:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebound_effect_(conservation)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khazzoom–Brookes_postulate
    delcrossvLong Beach Ed