LOCHINVAR NOBLE KEEPS NEEDING MANUAL RESET HELP!

bosstowner

Hi everyone! Hope you and yours are well and happy new year. I have been running into issues past week when I am hosting 3 nephews coming into town for a visit. They are from Florida so I have been bumping the baseboard heat up to accommodate them (it's 25-34F in Boston). Also they take really REALLY long showers. I also have to cook for them and they do laundry too. 2 days into them visiting me for a week long. My Lochinvar Noble decides to keep needing me to run down and manually resetting it. Heats up all fine and well but occasionally tripping once a day. Is there something wrong with my boiler or it's just the hot water usage that causes the issue? Thanks everybody!

RickDelta

If I were you , I would just fly to Florida and let them cook for you! : )

Are you getting any error codes?

bosstowner

RickDelta said:

If I were you , I would just fly to Florida and let them cook for you! : )

Are you getting any error codes?

Hi RickDelta! I am so stupid I should have take a picture of the error code. It happened to me a few times and just went back to normal. The kids are just here for a month for an internship. They suck at cooking..these kids nowadays

bosstowner

Managed to get some images. Manually resetted 2 hours ago.
Just flipped the heating all to 77F.
ARHL 200
MRHL 190

bosstowner

5 minutes in after RUN hits 100% to drive the outlet to 170C. Drops down and then enter post purge and ignite and finally settle to around 10%. Hot water runs fine and boiling hot to shower. Baseboard heating on fine. What could be the issue?

RickDelta

This is a very common problem for your area this time of year!
The Canadian moose migrate down your way looking for food and mistakenly thought your outdoor sensor was a tasty ear of field corn.

Have your checked to see if your outdoor sensor is still there?

hot_rod

When it hits high limit it will need a manual reset, looks like 190F
Got a pic of the piping, it could be a flow issue

bosstowner

hot_rod said:

When it hits high limit it will need a manual reset, looks like 190F
Got a pic of the piping, it could be a flow issue

Yes that manual reset is at 190. Should I move it unto 200 alongside with the automatic reset hi limit?

bosstowner

RickDelta said:

This is a very common problem for your area this time of year!
The Canadian moose migrate down your way looking for food and mistakenly thought your outdoor sensor was a tasty ear of field corn.

Have your checked to see if your outdoor sensor is still there?

Haha! I don't think I ever had an outdoor sensor. It has just been saying Outdoor Sensor missing for a while now

bosstowner

hot_rod said:

When it hits high limit it will need a manual reset, looks like 190F
Got a pic of the piping, it could be a flow issue

Insightful. Is it possible you could elaborate? Which pipe do you need me to look for and take a picture of? I think it was a flow issue too because sometime we are using the hot water all 4 people at once and maybe this is the issue. When I was alone before they came, everything worked fine and beautifully (although I like and leave my temp a tad lower than what the kids like)

RickDelta

My Lochinvar Noble decides to keep needing me to run down and manually resetting it.

Can you send pic of what exactly your ressetting and how?

...... and how long has this "missing outdoor sensor" been showing?

hot_rod

How old is it? Has the heat exchanger ever been descaled? 140 seems high for DWH

pedmec

You have a history menu that saves the last 10 faults. they list it as data logging.

Jamie Hall

I see one glaring problem in the above descriptions. You have a manual reset upper limit at 190, but the automatic cutoff upper limit is at 200? Really? What was someone thinking? The automatic cutoff must be below the manual, or which one do you think will trip first?

Please...

psb75

You are attempting to run that boiler at full-tilt boogie i.e. "we are using the hot water all 4 people at once"--without adjusting all of the proper settings. You are also running your system pressure rather high at 25psi. It will blow off at 30psi.--be aware. The installer probably never put up the outdoor sensor. You are missing a major aspect of this boiler's ability to operate at full efficiency most of the time--especially when those "kids" aren't there. Post a few pictures of the general plumbing layout for more comprehensive help from this forum. Use the manual or get a service person to adjust the boiler to proper settings and adjust AGAIN after "kids" leave.

hot_rod

I had that exact boiler, typically on a large draw output temperature drops. It should not cause a lock out. Really it should never hit the high limits, those are safeties not operating control settings. The manual tells you the maximum you should set the limits.

It sounds like the heat exchanger cannot transfer the heat when at high flow, high temperature.

Watching the display at those conditions will tell the story.
The control can be adjusted, or you can, with one keystroke get to the factory default settings and it will run just fine.

A clean and check on the whole unit might be a good idea, including a combustion analyzer check.

bosstowner

RickDelta said:

My Lochinvar Noble decides to keep needing me to run down and manually resetting it.

Can you send pic of what exactly your ressetting and how?

...... and how long has this "missing outdoor sensor" been showing?

Probably since I purchased the house. Just tested and kept the temperature stable and not have the kids turning the Nest thermostat up and down today. Haven't reset so far.

bosstowner

hot_rod said:

I had that exact boiler, typically on a large draw output temperature drops. It should not cause a lock out. Really it should never hit the high limits, those are safeties not operating control settings. The manual tells you the maximum you should set the limits.

It sounds like the heat exchanger cannot transfer the heat when at high flow, high temperature.

Watching the display at those conditions will tell the story.
The control can be adjusted, or you can, with one keystroke get to the factory default settings and it will run just fine.

A clean and check on the whole unit might be a good idea, including a combustion analyzer check.

I saw your post too. It never have had the red screen screaming lockout ever. It just says it needs to be reignited/reset I can't remember. It happened to me twice before - once randomly and once I was doing a lot of hot water laundry.

bosstowner

psb75 said:

You are attempting to run that boiler at full-tilt boogie i.e. "we are using the hot water all 4 people at once"--without adjusting all of the proper settings. You are also running your system pressure rather high at 25psi. It will blow off at 30psi.--be aware. The installer probably never put up the outdoor sensor. You are missing a major aspect of this boiler's ability to operate at full efficiency most of the time--especially when those "kids" aren't there. Post a few pictures of the general plumbing layout for more comprehensive help from this forum. Use the manual or get a service person to adjust the boiler to proper settings and adjust AGAIN after "kids" leave.

Jamie Hall said:

I see one glaring problem in the above descriptions. You have a manual reset upper limit at 190, but the automatic cutoff upper limit is at 200? Really? What was someone thinking? The automatic cutoff must be below the manual, or which one do you think will trip first?

Please...

Exactly what was going on my mind yesterday too. Should I flip the manual to 200 and automatic at 190?

bosstowner

hot_rod said:

How old is it? Has the heat exchanger ever been descaled? 140 seems high for DWH

It's probably 7 years old.

hot_rod

If you don't have any history or stickers indicating when it was last cleaned, its time. Open the boiler and clean, descale the hx. Replace flame rod, gaskets , and check combustion and gas pressure 

neilc

bosstowner said:

Should I flip the manual to 200 and automatic at 190?

YES, and try 180 instead of 190

hot_rod

See what the DHW temperature is set to and the limits need to be above that.
I think the boiler runs to 180 on dhw call, due to the small hx they use
The manual will indicate factory defaults

Skyline

Something similar happened to my daughter's Locknivar boiler too, discussed this thread awhile ego.

The short version of it is, that her issue was/is related to the NG pressure in the boiler. Either the gas company has some issues with NG pressure on occasion, or many customers using NG drops the pressure. The gas piping after the gas meter is also suspect. Since this is not something that happens every day, maybe once a year, my daughter is reluctant to spend money on updating the gas line.

The OP runs the boiler close to the max output, where the gas pressure might be an issue. By no means that I am stating that's the source of the issue. This is just a wild guess....

bosstowner

Skyline said:

Something similar happened to my daughter's Locknivar boiler too, discussed this thread awhile ego.

The short version of it is, that her issue was/is related to the NG pressure in the boiler. Either the gas company has some issues with NG pressure on occasion, or many customers using NG drops the pressure. The gas piping after the gas meter is also suspect. Since this is not something that happens every day, maybe once a year, my daughter is reluctant to spend money on updating the gas line.

The OP runs the boiler close to the max output, where the gas pressure might be an issue. By no means that I am stating that's the source of the issue. This is just a wild guess....

Hi! I actually have a city officer come over to update the city's gas meter in the house 6 months ago actually. So I don't think it's any gas issue since I feel it's pretty reliable where I live. Thank you for your input - I'll definitely note that down in case it trips again.

rick in Alaska

It has been a while, but that delta t seems a little tight to me. Flow issues?
For sure need to readjust the automatic reset and the manual reset limits though.
Rick

bosstowner

psb75 said:

You are attempting to run that boiler at full-tilt boogie i.e. "we are using the hot water all 4 people at once"--without adjusting all of the proper settings. You are also running your system pressure rather high at 25psi. It will blow off at 30psi.--be aware. The installer probably never put up the outdoor sensor. You are missing a major aspect of this boiler's ability to operate at full efficiency most of the time--especially when those "kids" aren't there. Post a few pictures of the general plumbing layout for more comprehensive help from this forum. Use the manual or get a service person to adjust the boiler to proper settings and adjust AGAIN after "kids" leave.

Hi! I got some pictures here!

bosstowner

hot_rod said:

See what the DHW temperature is set to and the limits need to be above that.
I think the boiler runs to 180 on dhw call, due to the small hx they use
The manual will indicate factory defaults

Should I just leave it all on factory defaults? How low should DHW be? Could it still heat my house if it's lower than 140? (which I think is currently set right now)

hot_rod

You have service valves under the unit to flush the hx. If that hasn’t been done in 7 years, start there
These are easy to use kits for cleaning the water side of the hx

neilc

bosstowner said:

Should I just leave it all on factory defaults? How low should DHW be? Could it still heat my house if it's lower than 140? (which I think is currently set right now)

I don't know for factory defaults , , ,
that's a combi boiler, heating, and domestic hot,

set your heating water to 180, tops, unless you need more,
keep that high limit at 200 for now,
where are you located?

the domestic, any hotter than 120 and you run scalding possibilities,
good you have that mix valve,
set your domestic to 120, and let the burner modulate,
140? 180? , , , too hot, way too hot !

do you have your manual ?

hot_rod

For the mixing valve to operate properly the DHW temperature needs to be at least 140f. The hot inlet to the mixer needs to be 20 degrees warmer than the adjusted mix temperature of 120
Lochinvar has all the manuals online.
Start on page 56

The limits should be 200 for auto, 210 for manual (default settings)
DHW is default 120, you need to raise it to 140

https://s3.amazonaws.com/s3.supplyhouse.com/product_files/Lochinvar-NKC199N-User-Guide.pdf