Main Vent Replacement

mgambuzza · January 12

First of all thank you to all the experts who have helped me so far with my single pipe steam woes. I can now say all of my radiators are generating heat, and the kitchen, finally in a year and a half of ownership, now heats up and mainains a 67-69degree average (previously in the low 50s).

Now my next question is on the mains. In the included pictures the current ones are VINTAGE Hoffman No.6s. I know from some visual history this house was coal, oil, and now gas. Is there an equivalent for the vintage No.6s?

Steamhead · January 12

@mgambuzza , those vents were sized for coal firing and are likely too small now. How long are the steam mains, and what pipe size?

mgambuzza · January 13

OK, so I'm an electrical, guy, but here's what I came up with and the experts can put in your 2c. I'm including a picture of the main steam output - the Red circle on the left is what I call Loop 1, and the Red circle on the right I call Loop 2. The Blue circle on the left is the main air vent for Loop 1 and the Blue circle on the right is for Loop 2. I measured and mapped out the Main paths with approximate diameters and lengths. Do I need to add the distance of the branches to the radiators (25 of them split between 1st and 2nd floors ten of them on the 2nd floor at approx 15' 1.5" pipe each

) in order to get a correct Main Air Vent sizing?

mgambuzza · January 13

I've updated my drawing to include spots where taps for the registers are. It looks like I stand corrected- 25 taps for registers. The darkened circles on the Main Lines indicate where there are taps that go to registers.

Steamhead · January 14

To start off, replace each old main vent with a Gorton #2. Add more venting if needed.

mgambuzza · January 17

The Good and Bad news.
Good - I ordered 2 Gorton No2 from Supply house and they actually arrived today (Ordered Monday, received Tuesday).

Bad - the one doesn't make any noise when shook, and when I blow through it no air goes through. The other sounds like the part inside came completely apart (when I roll it side to side and circular motion you can hear the valve rolling around in it as if it popped off the bimetallic curve).

The shipping box looked a little "tossed" up so I'm thinking both are defective. Do you think I'd be better off getting a return and finding it locally so I don't keep this constant rotation of defects? Have others experienced this when having these shipped. It's almost like my experience trying to purchase a turntable online, and the bouncing, tossing motion from shipment almost consistently trashed the older turntables.

ethicalpaul · January 17

The one that makes no noise and that you can't blow through, it is broken. You can contact supplyhouse for a replacement.

The other one, blow through it (you may already have) when it is upright, it should allow air through. Then turn it upside down. It should block your breath going through it.

If it doesn't act like that, tell them they are both received broken and you wonder if they could send the next ones in boxes with some padding.

I received a gorton vent from them myself in just a plastic shipping bag and it was broken like your one that makes no noise. It had a dent in it. They replaced it quickly for no charge.

mgambuzza · January 17

ethicalpaul said:
The one that makes no noise and that you can't blow through, it is broken. You can contact supplyhouse for a replacement.

The other one, blow through it (you may already have) when it is upright, it should allow air through. Then turn it upside down. It should block your breath going through it.

If it doesn't act like that, tell them they are both received broken and you wonder if they could send the next ones in boxes with some padding.

I received a gorton vent from them myself in just a plastic shipping bag and it was broken like your one that makes no noise. It had a dent in it. They replaced it quickly for no charge.

Thank you for the advice - the one when upside down no air, right side up-air, so now I'm down to one defective. Appreciated and I'll have them send the one replacement!!

ethicalpaul · January 17

Yeah very good. Operational gorton and maid o mist sound clanky when you shake them.

See this video for what likely happened to your stuck one. Go to 23:15 into the video to avoid a lot of boredom!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiNiu5EXMm0

Mark N · January 17

@mgambuzza that Hoffman #6 is a vacuum main vent. Do you have any other vacuum vents on your system like Hoffman #2's on some of your rads. Some people here on Heating Help would be interested in them if they're still working.

mgambuzza · January 17

Mark N said:

@mgambuzza that Hoffman #6 is a vacuum main vent. Do you have any other vacuum vents on your system like Hoffman #2's on some of your rads. Some people here on Heating Help would be interested in them if they're still working.

Let me check. There were a couple vintage Hoffman‘s that I removed, but I kept them just in case, as well as historical perspective. I will let you know when I get home.

mgambuzza · January 17

I was going to replace the main vent for my right side loop (the longest loop)but as you saw in one of the pictures, the current one goes directly and pushes directly into the insulation of a pipe above. I was thinking of doing a “T” extension so I could avoid that pipe. Would you recommend a T coming off the main, With a couple openings sealed in case I need additional venting, in order to avoid venting and pushing directly into the insulated pipe?

I’m thinking, do a three-quarter pipe pieces, then a reducer for when I screw in the Gorton.

mgambuzza · January 18

One down one to go. I’m in the process of returning the defective Gorton, but in the meantime, I installed this on the Longer Loop, #2. Yes, the old one was a Hoffman number six vacuum valve.

mgambuzza · January 18

Mark N said:

@mgambuzza that Hoffman #6 is a vacuum main vent. Do you have any other vacuum vents on your system like Hoffman #2's on some of your rads. Some people here on Heating Help would be interested in them if they're still working.

I have three Hoffman number twos if anyone’s interested.

Mark N · January 18

@SteamCoffee @mgambuzza has some Hoffman #2's if your interested.

SteamCoffee · January 18

I’m interested! Do they still work? Thanks!

mgambuzza · January 21

mgambuzza said:
One down one to go. I’m in the process of returning the defective Gorton, but in the meantime, I installed this on the Longer Loop, #2. Yes, the old one was a Hoffman number six vacuum valve.

UGH -received the replacement this afternoon - defective again!! Completely blocked, no air can pass, and no noise from it when moved. Sent another request for replacement. I wish they were closer to me (Upstate NY).

Steamhead · January 21

mgambuzza said:
UGH -received the replacement this afternoon - defective again!! Completely blocked, no air can pass, and no noise from it when moved. Sent another request for replacement. I wish they were closer to me (Upstate NY).

The folks at Gorton are aware of this problem, and are looking into it.

mgambuzza · January 23

Steamhead said:

UGH -received the replacement this afternoon - defective again!! Completely blocked, no air can pass, and no noise from it when moved. Sent another request for replacement. I wish they were closer to me (Upstate NY).
The folks at Gorton are aware of this problem, and are looking into it.

Today I reached out to Gorton simply to ask if any closer distributors were available in Syracuse, New York. Unfortunately, the only distributor was a former oil supply company is now out of business. He transferred me to another gentleman I believe who may have been one of the managers, who apologized and said he understood there were issues with shipping.I wish someone more local had an inventory of these so I could pick up without the risk of the bumping and handling and shipping. Maybe that may be an opportunity for someone in central New York. I was impressed though that someone would actually admit to the issue, apologized for it, and was upfront with it. It is rare these days.

KarlW · January 23

I’m in Rochester and I tried locating one of these as well. I ordered a Big Mouth from supplyhouse.com and it seems to be working, but I’ve had it less than a week.

I grew up in Syracuse and now live in Rochester. I’ve always noticed that our cities (Rochester and Buffalo more than Syracuse) were built more like midwest industrial cities (Cleveland, Detroit, Pittsburgh) rather than east coast ones (Boston, New York, Philiadelphia).

I suspect this is why residential steam heat is vanishingly rare in our region (hot water is far more common), and thus come to the conclusion that contractors don’t know how to service them for this reason.

You don’t see many folks from Chicagoland posting in Strictly Steam despite it being as cold or colder than the east coast.

bburd · January 23

Chicago has a huge installed base of old steam systems, much like NYC.

KarlW · January 23

@bburd In Houses? They sure don’t seem to know about this site…

Large Buildings are different, and steam is quite common in the Midwest for that.

bburd · January 23

I meant mostly the larger buildings, yes.

mgambuzza · January 27

Third Time charm! Today I received the third Gorton, and it arrived with that wonderful cling sound. I was able to replace my second Hoffman number six and now operates flawlessly. Very satisfied, but wish still there was a local distributor so I could eliminate these types of issues.

Main Vent Replacement

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