Swing Joints on Oil Tank Fill/Vent Lines - Which configuration?

HandyFS

I can use some suggestions on what is an ideal swing joint configuration comparing 2 fill/vent pipe layouts.

Is this first configuration considered a proper swing joint when exiting on a back wall in image #1? I am moving a tank and need to pipe it out the back similar to the photos below. Is image #1 an ideal swing joint with 2-90's and a small nipple in-between like this? I will be running 2" for both the fill and vent lines. EDIT: Forgot to mention that this is a Roth tank, so 2" on fill/vent lines and swing joints are suggested.

In my mind, I was thinking I would need to do another nipple run and end up using 4-90's per line to achieve this (Like the 2nd photo below). Looking at the 1st image below from an install online, it seems that may be sufficient enough to get the pitch on the lines that run outside with tons of potential movement, but would leave the middle short run nipple without pitch. Is the piping in image #1 below with 2-90's sufficient?

The vertical from the top of the tank to the hole it will be passing the outer wall is about 18" tall, and then the run from that oil horizontal pitched outside to the fill is about 30", so it has a decent run to get pitch. So if I were to follow the image #1 configuration like the image below, it would be:
-18" 2" Vertical pipe
-90 degree 2"
-Small nipple (2"-4" inches)
-90 degree 2" slightly angled to achieve pitch
-30" 2" horizontal pipe slightly pitched to get to the outer wall
-Once on the outer wall, I'll then be using a 90", and then a 45" with a Scully-style fill cap.

If the configuration in image #1 is not proper, I would then be configuring in 2 extra 90's like photo #2 below.

I see the benefit of #2 which gives the possibility to pitch the middle nipple, but is that necessary or required on such a short nipple?

Which of these 2 configurations is recommended?

Configuration 1 (With 2-90's) - #1:


Configuration 2 (With 4-90's) - #2:

EBEBRATT-Ed

Swing joints are not required on indoor tanks. They are required on outdoor underground tanks to allow for tank settling.

For indoor tanks swing joints are used to line thing up, miss obstruction or to maintain the correct pitch on piping. Both the fill and the vent should pitch toward the tank slightly. Frequently the tapings on indoor tanks are welded in and may be a little cockeyed. Swing joints are used to straighten things out.

I would not be too concerned with the pitch of a short nipple especially on the fill pipe. The vent pipe is the more important pipe to pitch. If any oil hangs in the vent pie from over filling it will get blown outside during the next fill.

Screw some fittings in the tank before drilling any holes and plan it out (so you can see the pitch) before you commit to how you will run the pipe.

You do know you can use 1 1/4" for both the fill and vent to save a few bucks

HandyFS

EBEBRATT-Ed said:

Swing joints are not required on indoor tanks. They are required on outdoor underground tanks to allow for tank settling.

For indoor tanks swing joints are used to line thing up, miss obstruction or to maintain the correct pitch on piping. Both the fill and the vent should pitch toward the tank slightly. Frequently the tapings on indoor tanks are welded in and may be a little cockeyed. Swing joints are used to straighten things out.

I would not be too concerned with the pitch of a short nipple especially on the fill pipe. The vent pipe is the more important pipe to pitch. If any oil hangs in the vent pie from over filling it will get blown outside during the next fill.

Screw some fittings in the tank before drilling any holes and plan it out (so you can see the pitch) before you commit to how you will run the pipe.

You do know you can use 1 1/4" for both the fill and vent to save a few bucks

Thanks for the feedback, didn't even think of the vent line being the issue if oil hung out. From that configuration in image #1, I'm guessing that's why they kept the nipple so short, so there is little to collect there possibly.

I forgot to mention, this is a ROTH tank so they suggest using 2" for both Fill and Vent lines, so I'm going to go with that.

Is that considered an ideal swing joint in photo #1 and sufficient in this case? Debating which configuration to go with and get it done soon.

Here is an install manual I found from Roth:
Step #7 in that image shows the same configuration only using 2-90's, but, they aren't pointing in the same direction as suggested so wasn't sure if that would be an issue, since those tubes head off to the left where my configuration is out the back.
https://www.sidharvey.com/documents/UNI-05933_Instal.pdf

STEVEusaPA

I thought swing joints were required on all tanks, indoor or out. They work their magic when a basement floods.
Roth requires swing joints, which is hilarious because in there training video, they mention that you must use swing joints, then show you a 'proper installation' that doesn't have swing joints. Maybe they changed it. Roth's are fine with 1 1/2" piping.
You can even press them with megapress and Viega claims because you will have movement in the joint no swing joint is needed, but I'm not there yet.

HandyFS

STEVEusaPA said:

I thought swing joints were required on all tanks, indoor or out. They work their magic when a basement floods.
Roth requires swing joints, which is hilarious because in there training video, they mention that you must use swing joints, then show you a 'proper installation' that doesn't have swing joints. Maybe they changed it. Roth's are fine with 1 1/2" piping.
You can even press them with megapress and Viega claims because you will have movement in the joint no swing joint is needed, but I'm not there yet.

Funny on their part showing the wrong install. Sounds like they have a strict install procedure for their warranty/insurance so that is probably why they lay out such strict steps in the manual if things ever leak or go bad.

The old tank setup already had a 2" through the block wall, so I'll probably just use 2" to make that easier and I'm drilling a new vent line out the block, so to keep it simple I may just mate that with 2" also. No press setup here either, just good old fashioned pipe wrenches and muscle.

Anyone here installing Roth tanks regularly? All tips from you all are appreciated.

HandyFS

Looking closer at the configuration #1 photo, they didn't use a nipple in the middle, instead, they used a 2" street 90 for that joint. Is that still considered a swing joint or is it better to have a little bit of nipple in there? 1 less connection I suppose but I know a swing joint allows for movement, and these Roth tanks move as they fill/empty.

Also hard to say, but the vent size may transition at the 90 elbow to a 1-1/2" going out for the vent.

Anyone who installs Roth tanks that can chime in would be helpful.

STEVEusaPA

I think I’m correct in saying NFPA 31 doesn’t allow for street elbows, by code. I’d have to look tomorrow.
Just follow the instructions, don’t forget to support the piping to take the weight off the plastic fittings.
Also, if low ceiling you may want to tilt the tank so you can install the oil line first before the fill and vent

HVACNUT

I wouldn't use Street Els like shown in the first pic. No close nips either. Shoulder or longer.

EBEBRATT-Ed

I looked in NFPA 31 today and I don't recall anything about street ells but I wasn't looking for that so I may have missed it.

Surprisingly it didn't seem to mention swing joints either at least I didn't see it. They referred to some other standards that i didn't look up though.

Big Ed_4

A swing joint is used when you need to pitch a pipe run .With an oil tank you don't want a trap in the oil vent, to avoid future problems with oil spillage .....