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What is this?
KayB
Member Posts: 6
Comments
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Pictures of the radiators and inlet valves and return ? It appears to be something unique... Might as well post some of the boiler as I see A Lot of copper..One way to get familiar something you know nothing about is to ask a really smart person a really stupid question0
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Hello @KayB,
The part that has been leaking looks like an air vent and the larger unit just before it looks like a F & T steam trap, maybe just a float valve. The loop around the drip is interesting too. Actually it looks like there is two drips in the one picture.
National - U.S. Gas Boiler 45+ Years Old
Steam 300 SQ. FT. - EDR 347
One Pipe System0 -
I think this is correct, since the typical F&T doesn't have a built-in union where it attaches to the return. The float valve would have been to keep water from coming out the vent.109A_5 said:......the larger unit just before it looks like a....... float valve.
@KayB , this may be some sort of Vapor system. This is why we'd like to see what the radiators look like and how they are piped. Once we know this, we can proceed. Also, where are you located?All Steamed Up, Inc.
Towson, MD, USA
Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
Oil & Gas Burner Service
Consulting0 -
Thanks for the info glad I'm not the only one thinking it's interesting I took pictures.i post them but part of my confusion is that I have both columns and tube style. Here are pics of some of the radiators. And pics that may help id the system. I can take pics of all the radiators if necessary but there are at least 12. Sorry the radiator pics weren't taken for this purpose I can take moreif necessary. The 4th pic shows the end of the main on one side. It shows what could be 2 drips. The silver line goes down along the wall and connects to the last pic. Then up to the the vent i was asking about.0
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On the basis of what I see so far... I'm going to wander out on a limb here and say that at one time this was a vapour system. There has, however, been some alarmingly creative plumbing going on... (the near boiler piping is interesting...)
That being said, it is quite possible that the odd widget is indeed a float valve -- but that there never was a vent there, rather it exhausted into free air. This was by no means unheard of, and works fine -- provided the rest of the system is working as it should, as there should never be any pressure or steam in the dry returns of any two pipe system, never mind a vapour system.
Farther than that I can't really guess. I imagine that there has been a good deal of rearranging over the years, and not to benefit. A morning wandering around the basement and figuring what is doing what would in order.
Where are you located? With any kind of luck we know someone who knows steam in your area.Br. Jamie, osb
Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England0 -
I live just outside New paltz ny. I will take better pictures of the radiators. Are you saying that the vent on the float is not nessary just the float valve?? Should I take this float off for a better assessment/ replacement? Or is it obsolete with my current setup??0
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Don't add/remove anything
More photos and better photos. When taking closeup photos of the valves, make sure it's not blurry and that we can make out any markings on them.0 -
I believe this was a Trane vapor system. Seeing that valve will help. If it was Trane, there would have been a very large vacuum vent atop that float trap.Retired and loving it.0
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Either that or an ARCO Model K. See the nut on the side of the valve?DanHolohan said:I believe this was a Trane vapor system. Seeing that valve will help. If it was Trane, there would have been a very large vacuum vent atop that float trap.
All Steamed Up, Inc.
Towson, MD, USA
Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
Oil & Gas Burner Service
Consulting1 -
Yes.Retired and loving it.0
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Steamhead said:
I believe this was a Trane vapor system. Seeing that valve will help. If it was Trane, there would have been a very large vacuum vent atop that float trap.
Either that or an ARCO Model K. See the nut on the side of the valve?One way to get familiar something you know nothing about is to ask a really smart person a really stupid question0 -
Surely can't be anything else AFAIK
One way to get familiar something you know nothing about is to ask a really smart person a really stupid question0 -
I have pics these are the ones that seem to work they all have 2 valves or something like that...except the one has just an elbow on the retur. Therest that dont work have one valve at the top and no a elbow return.0
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Here are better pics of the ??float valve??0
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There’s a variable orifice inside the supply valve.Retired and loving it.0
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Right. I can barely make it out, but the newer valves with the nut on the side look like they have the Detroit symbol stamped in the side to the left of the nut- basically a triangle inside a circle. Detroit was owned by American Radiator Co. (ARCO) so this valve would have been for a Model K. Those valves were probably installed when those radiators were installed, sometime after 1938 since these are "small-tube" rads, which entered production about then.DanHolohan said:There’s a variable orifice inside the supply valve.
But the older rads have those lock-shield valves on the returns. These were a feature of "Moline Heat" systems. The shutoff valves appear to be standard models rather than Molines, though. Not sure if they are orificed, but orifices can be added.
So what we now have is a hybrid. It will operate best as Orifice Vapor. The Orifice system was first used in the late 19th century, and became popular in Europe. Go here for more:
https://www.heatinghelp.com/systems-help-center/european-heating-systems-circa-1907/
Basically, the Orifice (or Tudor, after its inventor) system keeps the steam out of the dry (overhead) return lines in the basement by controlling the boiler steam pressure within specific (and very low) limits. This way there is only one moving part- the pressure control- to keep steam out of the returns. It is the height of simplicity.
@KayB , there are plenty of good Steam Men in NY. Go here to find one:
https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/state/NY
Many of these are in and around NYC, but I'm sure you could sweet-talk someone into taking a ride up the Hudson Valley.All Steamed Up, Inc.
Towson, MD, USA
Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
Oil & Gas Burner Service
Consulting0 -
Hiya KayB...diagnosing & Rehabbing enigmatic, antique, Steam & Hot water systems like yours is my specialty. If you'd like, you could PM me right here..my ad is highlighted below. We fix..guaranteed 100% Have a Happy New Year Mad Dog 🐕0
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