What is this?

KayB

I'm new to steam heat. I have uneven heating. So I started looking into it. I couldn't find any vents or traps in the whole system. This thing is the only thing I found. Besides pipes and valves. Looks like its seen better days.Thanks  

reggi

Pictures of the radiators and inlet valves and return ? It appears to be something unique... Might as well post some of the boiler as I see A Lot of copper..

109A_5

Hello @KayB,
The part that has been leaking looks like an air vent and the larger unit just before it looks like a F & T steam trap, maybe just a float valve. The loop around the drip is interesting too. Actually it looks like there is two drips in the one picture.

Steamhead

109A_5 said:

......the larger unit just before it looks like a....... float valve.

I think this is correct, since the typical F&T doesn't have a built-in union where it attaches to the return. The float valve would have been to keep water from coming out the vent.

@KayB , this may be some sort of Vapor system. This is why we'd like to see what the radiators look like and how they are piped. Once we know this, we can proceed. Also, where are you located?

KayB

Thanks for the info glad I'm not the only one thinking it's interesting I took pictures.i post them but part of my confusion is that I have both columns and tube style. Here are pics of some of the radiators. And pics that may help id the system. I can take pics of all the radiators if necessary but there are at least 12. Sorry the radiator pics weren't taken for this purpose I can take moreif necessary. The 4th pic shows the end of the main on one side. It shows what could be 2 drips. The silver line goes down along the wall and connects to the last pic. Then up to the the vent i was asking about.

DanHolohan

Please take a close-up photo of the supply valve on this radiator. 

Jamie Hall

On the basis of what I see so far... I'm going to wander out on a limb here and say that at one time this was a vapour system. There has, however, been some alarmingly creative plumbing going on... (the near boiler piping is interesting...)

That being said, it is quite possible that the odd widget is indeed a float valve -- but that there never was a vent there, rather it exhausted into free air. This was by no means unheard of, and works fine -- provided the rest of the system is working as it should, as there should never be any pressure or steam in the dry returns of any two pipe system, never mind a vapour system.

Farther than that I can't really guess. I imagine that there has been a good deal of rearranging over the years, and not to benefit. A morning wandering around the basement and figuring what is doing what would in order.

Where are you located? With any kind of luck we know someone who knows steam in your area.

KayB

I live just outside New paltz ny. I will take better pictures of the radiators. Are you saying that the vent on the float is not nessary just the float valve?? Should I take this float off for a better assessment/ replacement? Or is it obsolete with my current setup?? 

dko

Don't add/remove anything

More photos and better photos. When taking closeup photos of the valves, make sure it's not blurry and that we can make out any markings on them.

DanHolohan

I believe this was a Trane vapor system. Seeing  that valve will help. If it was Trane, there would have been a very large vacuum vent atop that float trap. 

Steamhead

DanHolohan said:

I believe this was a Trane vapor system. Seeing  that valve will help. If it was Trane, there would have been a very large vacuum vent atop that float trap. 

Either that or an ARCO Model K. See the nut on the side of the valve?

DanHolohan

Yes. 

reggi

Steamhead said:

I believe this was a Trane vapor system. Seeing  that valve will help. If it was Trane, there would have been a very large vacuum vent atop that float trap. 

Either that or an ARCO Model K. See the nut on the side of the valve?

That jumped right out as I was scrolling..agree..that would be 30"s ? 

reggi

Surely can't be anything else AFAIK

KayB

I have pics these are the ones that seem to work they all have 2 valves or something like that...except the one has just an elbow on the retur. Therest that dont work have one valve at the top and no a elbow return.

KayB

Here are better pics of the ??float valve??

DanHolohan

There’s a variable orifice inside the supply valve. 

Steamhead

DanHolohan said:

There’s a variable orifice inside the supply valve. 

Right. I can barely make it out, but the newer valves with the nut on the side look like they have the Detroit symbol stamped in the side to the left of the nut- basically a triangle inside a circle. Detroit was owned by American Radiator Co. (ARCO) so this valve would have been for a Model K. Those valves were probably installed when those radiators were installed, sometime after 1938 since these are "small-tube" rads, which entered production about then.

But the older rads have those lock-shield valves on the returns. These were a feature of "Moline Heat" systems. The shutoff valves appear to be standard models rather than Molines, though. Not sure if they are orificed, but orifices can be added.

So what we now have is a hybrid. It will operate best as Orifice Vapor. The Orifice system was first used in the late 19th century, and became popular in Europe. Go here for more:

https://www.heatinghelp.com/systems-help-center/european-heating-systems-circa-1907/

Basically, the Orifice (or Tudor, after its inventor) system keeps the steam out of the dry (overhead) return lines in the basement by controlling the boiler steam pressure within specific (and very low) limits. This way there is only one moving part- the pressure control- to keep steam out of the returns. It is the height of simplicity.

@KayB , there are plenty of good Steam Men in NY. Go here to find one:

https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/state/NY

Many of these are in and around NYC, but I'm sure you could sweet-talk someone into taking a ride up the Hudson Valley.

Mad Dog_2

Hiya KayB...diagnosing & Rehabbing enigmatic, antique, Steam & Hot water systems like yours is my specialty.  If you'd like,  you could PM me right here..my ad is highlighted below.  We fix..guaranteed 100% Have a Happy New Year  Mad Dog 🐕 

Mad Dog_2

You can't stop a Trane!!!  Mad Dog 🐕 

KayB

Thank you all