Will Tigerloop help our situation?

Don_175

We have a relatively new steam boiler with Beckett AFG oil burner. In past years, it would rumble for 20-30 seconds after startup and then settle down and be quiet. Never noticed what oil level was at that point.
We had our system serviced the end of October and for a week or so, had some episodes of recycling where oil burner would start, run for 20-30 seconds and shut off. Then it would start again and run until thermostat was satisfied. We were told to watch for a week or 2 and it did stop recycling.
Last week, I heard rumbling again. But now it lasted for at least 30 minutes. Had the same tech come out again, and he said pump had lots of air. He bled it off and did some adjustments to oil burner as well as changing the nozzle. Oil level was about ¼ tank. So far, we haven’t been charged.
As far as tank goes, it is a little over 10 years old and 275 gallons. Interior. It is about 40 feet from oil burner. It is a single pipe which used to run under a concrete “berm” on floor, but when we had new boiler put in, the pipe was moved to ceiling. It comes out from bottom of tank, goes up approximately 6.5 feet, runs along ceiling joists for maybe 40 feet and then drops to oil burner. As I mentioned, it had rumbled a bit in past but only on startup.
Presently, things are quiet, but service tech said that these overhead setups tend to have issues and either pipe may need to be moved back down to floor or we may benefit from a Tigerloop system.
Are these overhead systems more prone to issues, or do we potentially have a suction leak which needs to be addressed? I don’t want to slap a Tigerloop system into the mix if we have some other issue. He told me to call back if we have any further rumbling. Thanks
Don

Jamie Hall

Your tech. is at least partly right. Overhead systems are very much prone to trouble. Even a very small vacuum leak (which likely won't show up on a pressure test) and there will be problems. The bigger the leak, the worse the problems.

Assuming you really want to keep the line overhead, the first thing to do is to go over it, end to end, and check -- preferably remake and test individually -- every single connection to make sure it is vacuum tight. Any filters or valves are also potential leak points.

If all that doesn't solve the problem, a Tiger Loop or similar device may help. However, it must be understood that it is a bandaid, and may help with the symptoms -- but doesn't actually fix whatever is amiss.

Don_175

Would you recommend dropping the line to the floor? The old one was run through a grey rubber conduit under mounded concrete. If I understand correctly, this one which is orange with a plastic coating can be run along the floor edge without any other protection. Is that true?

MaxMercy

Don_175 said:

Would you recommend dropping the line to the floor?

With the oil line coming off the bottom of the tank as it already is, running it below oil level along the floor will pretty much eliminate this problem. If you can run the line and keep it out of foot traffic lanes, that's what I would do.

As far as what oil line to use, that might be up to your local jurisdiction. Best to check with your local plumbing inspector for advice.

SuperTech

It's best to avoid overhead oil lines whenever possible. Gravity fed is the best way and will prevent excess wear on the oil pump. 

I'd go back to a single line along the floor rather than installing a tiger loop.

Jamie Hall

So would I....

captainco

Your leaking air during the off cycle.
Could be a fitting, could be a pump seal or a filter gasket. Even with a
tigerloop you may have this problem at start up. vacuum gauge and some heavy grease should find the problem,

Don_175

SuperTech said:

It's best to avoid overhead oil lines whenever possible. Gravity fed is the best way and will prevent excess wear on the oil pump. 

I'd go back to a single line along the floor rather than installing a tiger loop.

Our old line was under a kind of concrete berm. This line is coated in a clear plastic. Can it be run along the edge of the floor with nothing covering it?

Jamie Hall

It should be covered where it crosses a walking path. Otherwise, not needed.

Dave Carpentier

Just a user here, but..
The rumbling after start I had on my oil boiler was due to lazy clean-cut valve solenoid that would leak oil into combustion chamber. Easy fix with new pump.
When you think it might rumble, turn the stat up and get outside to watch your stack, see black smoke come out ?

EdTheHeaterMan

In my experience there are too many technicians that have never learned to make a proper flare on the end of a copper tube. There are plenty of YouTube videos that show the incorrect way to make a copper flare. A partially rolled over burr on the interior of a tube made by the cutting tool will cause the tubing to fail to make an airtight seal. Gravity does the rest.

The siphon created by the overhead line has the heavier than air liquid fuel at the high point. The lighter that oil atmosphere leaks into the flare fitting and allows the oil to drop back into the fuel tank. The longer the off cycle, the more air is found in the overhead line. When the oil burner starts, that air may cause noisy operation until the air is purged. If enough air accumulates then there is a possibility that the fuel pressure will not be enough to force the fuel past the nozzle port. That is because the air will compress when it reaches the pressure regulator at the nozze port of the fuel pump. This results in a lockout by the primary control safety.

To fix this you need to get a technician with an expensive flaring tool that knows how to use it to make all the flare connections over, properly. In a perfect world, that would be easy to do. mist technicians that work on oil burners have the inexpensive flaring tool and don't know how to properly prep the end of the tube for an air tight seal. In that case the tiger loop gets them out of that jam of incompetence.

The other fix to to have the fuel line lower than the bottom of the tank, so any leak will present as a wet spot that is much easier to locate and repair. Incompetence will be a wet leak in that case.

EBEBRATT-Ed

What @EdTheHeaterMan said

If you run the line on the floor which is the best fix it has to be protected even if the oil line has plastic coating.

Why? because if someone hits it and you get a leak you could empty your oil tank into the basement. Not a good day.

The usual method is to run the line where the wall meets the floor and cover it with mortar. You can also run it in steel electrical conduit. If under the floor the coated line can be buried as is But I would put it in PCV electrical conduit.

Overhead line(s) can be problematic. I never liked a single overhead line for that reason although many are installed and work fine.

As Ed said above poor workmanship and the inability to flare tubing and make the system airtight is the issue.

EdTheHeaterMan

Don_175 said:

Would the Cleancut Suntec pump for the Beckett AFG burner use the 1/8” plug?

NO.

1/16" pipe plug. rare item to find at the hardware store. You will want the allen wrench type plug. Best to get it from a supply house that sells oil burner parts.
https://www.supplyhouse.com/Suntec-991362B-1-16-By-Pass-Plug-for-A-B-Mini-Pumps

EdTheHeaterMan

EBEBRATT-Ed said:

@Don_175

If the suction leak is not found you may still have issues.

You need a 1/16 pipe plug . They come with the oil pumps. Your technician probably has plenty of them as no one installs two pipe any more unless they have a Tiger Loop.

What you really need to do is get your technician back there and call his service manager.

You stated in your other post that the rumbling got worse after the service last October. So, in October they made the suction leak worse which is compounded by the fact that you oil level is down to 1/4 of a tank.....more vacuum ...more air leak. You will find you have fewer issues with a full tank.

I agree with this. call the professional and get your money's worth

Don_175

Thank you.