Need opinions - Replace system 2000 or repair>

Draven

I've had my system 2000 since '09. In that time I've gone through 5 zone valves, 4 circ pumps, 2 aquastats, a low water cutoff... and this morning I woke up to no heat and found one of the zone valves leaking straight into the primary electronics and have seemingly fried them (and I just replaced the main board 3 weeks ago when the unit was serviced). I'm at my wit's end. At this point, I'm guessing I'm looking at replacing all 3 zone valves and cutting in new copper on offs, and the entire electronics assembly. I'm guestimating $1500, but who knows how much the entire electronic assembly is, could easily be more. With as many problems as this boiler has given me, I'm debating pulling some quotes for something else at this point. What else is out there that people recommend? I need something bullet proof - I feel like I have no peace of mind with this boiler at this point.

pecmsg

Sounds like a Bad install more than the product.

Have you gotten a factory rep on site to review the work?

WMno57

Draven said:

I need something bullet proof

Then keep the EK. Or get a new EK. If I were you, I would be having a come to Jesus meeting with whoever maintains your EK. EK is one of the most bulletproof boilers out there, but your installation has proved to be less than bulletproof.
Do you have annual service? Do you ask the tech what can be done to make your system more reliable? My 2001 Chevy Suburban is less than 100 hours shy of 10,000. It is reliable!. Because it is maintained, and consumable parts are replaced or upgraded. I upgraded the tires to 10 ply load range E (on a 1/2 ton) I also have a good spare, and all the tools to change it, which I will probably never need. I replaced the alternator and water pump with new. The old ones still worked.
The only new boilers on today's market that are close to your EK in terms of reliability would be the Cast Iron Weil-McLain or Peerless. But the boiler is only one part of the hydronic system.

Draven

Sounds like a Bad install more than the product.

Have you gotten a factory rep on site to review the work?

No, that may be my next step.

Do you have annual service? Do you ask the tech what can be done to make your system more reliable?

Yes, I have it serviced every year. They were just here 3 weeks ago replacing the hydrostat/aquastat. I didn't do the cleaning at that time because it wasn't 'due' until February.

I've decided to replace all 3 zone valves and whatever the electronics take to get back running for now, and reassess afterwards. Maybe asking for an EK factory rep to come out and look at it is the right move. Obviously I don't want to drop big money on a new boiler, but I also don't want to keep having issues over and over. I feel trapped by the situation.

Roger

Thank you for your post, @Draven . The good news is that we are now aware of your situation and can be involved to help out. Please give us a call at (908) 735-2066 (or PM me) so we can provide support and connect with your contractor to figure out the right steps to make sure your system, installation, and components are up to the reliability that we are known for and that you and we expect.
I look forward to hearing from you soon.
Roger

pecmsg

Draven said:

Sounds like a Bad install more than the product.

Have you gotten a factory rep on site to review the work?

No, that may be my next step.

Do you have annual service? Do you ask the tech what can be done to make your system more reliable?

Yes, I have it serviced every year. They were just here 3 weeks ago replacing the hydrostat/aquastat. I didn't do the cleaning at that time because it wasn't 'due' until February.

I've decided to replace all 3 zone valves and whatever the electronics take to get back running for now, and reassess afterwards. Maybe asking for an EK factory rep to come out and look at it is the right move. Obviously I don't want to drop big money on a new boiler, but I also don't want to keep having issues over and over. I feel trapped by the situation.

Thats a little late in the operating season to do the cleaning?

Draven

pecmsg said:

That's a little late in the operating season to do the cleaning?

Like I said, 8-9 months into the yearly cleaning cycle seemed early so I didn't do it. I also don't think a cleaning would've prevented a zone valve from leaking into the eletronics any more than replacing the system board 3 weeks ago would have, but I'll keep that in mind for my next leak. : )

pecmsg

Here annual cleanings are completed before November 15th.

Draven

pecmsg said:

Here annual cleanings are completed before November 15th.

February is before November, last I checked. : ) I'm guessing you're saying yearly service should be completed shortly before the start of the higher-use cold season. I'll keep that in mind for next year.

bburd

The items that have failed are all industry standard accessories, not part of the boiler itself which should last a great deal longer. It's hard to judge without seeing the operating environment, but this sounds like a combination of bad luck and poor installation practices, for instance locating the electronics directly beneath components that are likely to leak.

Draven

As a follow up/conclusion to the thread, I wanted to provide an update. I had my normal vendor come out and we replaced the manifold and all three zone valves. I had the obvious one leaking and a second that showed evidence it had leaked in the past at some point so I wanted to be proactive and just replace the entire assembly. Once everything was re-plumbed, we started troubleshooting the power issues. I got very lucky in that the primary electronics all survived and I only lost the transformer mounted on the back of the housing, which my vendor had in stock and to my door for my tech in 10 minutes. Once everything was reassembled and the system bled, everything fired up nicely.
@Roger I appreciate you getting involved and wanting to be proactive in the repair process with my vendor. Thankfully we didn't need to reach out and we didn't get too crazy with part replacements until we were sure of what we needed.
In retrospect, I was jumping the gun with even suggesting a rip-and-replace. To everyone's point, I have had a lot of peripheral failures. The boiler has always run perfectly when everything else was healthy, and it was certainly my frustration talking more than anything. Lesson learned: Don't post immediately after getting an ear-full from a wife who just had a cold shower and wants to "rip that f***ing thing out now". : )
In the future, I'm going to visually check everything quarterly to be more proactive. I just had my vendor out three weeks ago doing the aquastat and both expansion tanks and neither they nor I noticed the leaking zone valves until it caused the problem so I think that was just simple bad luck coupled with the physical valves being 14 years old.

rick in Alaska

Can't say I have ever had a zone valve leak. Did it leak at the solder joint? Maybe post some pictures of your setup. You might also consider checking your house voltages and grounds. It seems like a lot of unusual electrical parts to lose.
Rick

mattmia2

rick in Alaska said:

Can't say I have ever had a zone valve leak. Did it leak at the solder joint? Maybe post some pictures of your setup. You might also consider checking your house voltages and grounds. It seems like a lot of unusual electrical parts to lose.
Rick

Sounds like it is a manifold with integrated valves so the leak was where the valve components mounted in to the manifold rather than a traditional zone valve where the seals are usually more robust.

Maybe make a pan that sits between the piping and the boiler and directs any water that might leak off to the side.

hot_rod

The stem o-ring can fail on zone valves. Or the large O ring where the top plate mounts to the body.
Some brands, Caleffi for instance uses two o-rings at that seal.

Roger

Thank you for your post and follow up, @Draven . I still have some concerns about the water quality as you replaced leaking zone valves and failed expansion tanks. It's worth checking out to prevent potential future issues.
Roger

mattmia2

Roger said:

Thank you for your post and follow up, @Draven . I still have some concerns about the water quality as you replaced leaking zone valves and failed expansion tanks. It's worth checking out to prevent potential future issues.
Roger

Or leaks in the system and a lot of makeup water.

Draven

rick in Alaska said:

Can't say I have ever had a zone valve leak. Did it leak at the solder joint? Maybe post some pictures of your setup. You might also consider checking your house voltages and grounds. It seems like a lot of unusual electrical parts to lose.
Rick

The leak was from the manifold itself, where the zone valve is inserted onto the rotating stem. The stem itself had begun leaking.

Draven

mattmia2 said:

rick in Alaska said:

Can't say I have ever had a zone valve leak. Did it leak at the solder joint? Maybe post some pictures of your setup. You might also consider checking your house voltages and grounds. It seems like a lot of unusual electrical parts to lose.
Rick

Sounds like it is a manifold with integrated valves so the leak was where the valve components mounted in to the manifold rather than a traditional zone valve where the seals are usually more robust.

Maybe make a pan that sits between the piping and the boiler and directs any water that might leak off to the side.

This is my plan, along with a wifi enabled water bug that will alert me if the boiler drops any amount of water into said pan.

Draven

hot_rod said:

The stem o-ring can fail on zone valves. Or the large O ring where the top plate mounts to the body.
Some brands, Caleffi for instance uses two o-rings at that seal.

This is exactly it. The stem o-ring failed and a fair amount of water came out and quickly leaked onto the electronics.