Temperature valve

marlz827

Recently, we had temperature valves installed in the apartment and the radiators are still getting very hot. Even though the dial is set to one are they supposed to still get hot overall or is it supposed to not get hot and sometimes brown Water spits out any ideas?

Jamie Hall

This is one pipe steam? One pipe only into the radiator? Or two. If this is one pipe steam, they will only work -- if they work at all -- if the steam is shot off from time to time. Then they will exercise some control by not permitting steam in at the beginning of the next cycle -- but if steam is already in the convector they won't do anything at all.

That they are spitting water suggests that the convectors are not pitched correctly to drain, which is whole different class of problem.

Further, located where they are, they will be influenced by the heat of the convector, not the temperature of the room.

Nice try...

marlz827

One pipe system what kind of issues will it cause if they’re all tilted and they’re leaking brown Water

Waher

The air vent needs to tilt slightly back towards the pipe nipples it is screwed in to or it won’t be able to drain condensate and will spit water. I’d recommend an air vent with threads on the bottom rather than the side. I’ll post a sketch later today.

I don’t think than Macon fitting is doing anything other than creating problems for you.

ChrisJ

They make TRV setups that will work with convectors. Those certainly aren't going to work.

Why would anyone think that would work?

KC_Jones

Few things to think about. A TRV such as you have is intended to help with a radiator that over heats, but that is after all efforts have bee made to make the system perform properly. Properly sized boiler, proper piping, proper venting, etc. Until all that is done a TRV shouldn't be considered.

If everything is overheating as you say, then you definitely aren't balanced and the TRV's probably shouldn't have been installed.

For me the spitting vent is an indication of existing issues that haven't been addressed that the TRV is now bringing to light.

All that said, even if everything was right with the system, the way those are installed will prevent them from ever working properly. The TRV is reading the temperature in the cabinet and it needs to read the room temperature. You need an operator with a remote sensor that is mounted in the room to read room temperature.

You also need to know the system pressure, steam should be run at very low pressure <1 psi, those valves have a maximum rating of 2 psi. With the vent spitting and the steam seeming to be able to push through them, I have a suspicion your pressure is too high and may ruin those valves, if it hasn't already.

And finally, I'm not sure if those are supposed to be mounted vertically like that. They don't specifically say it can't, but they also only show them installed horizontally. For me, I'd be calling Tunstall to verify if that orientation is acceptable.

EBEBRATT-Ed

First thing to do is have the stem pressure checked. Lower it as much as possible to still get heat1-2psi is maximum.

marlz827

The building has 100 apts mine was the first you all been a. Big help 

marlz827

Our building boiler is at 5psi I found out 

Jamie Hall

marlz827 said:

Our building boiler is at 5psi I found out 

Well, so much for those vents.

marlz827

Do they make trv to handle higher then 2

marlz827

So the whole unit will need to be replaced with a TRV that can handle more ? Can I changed out any of the parts in the picture or should I just buy a danfoss one 

KC_Jones

The boiler shouldn’t be running at 5 psi, that’s totally wrong. The vents don’t even like that pressure without the TRV.

Don’t replace anything, it will be a waste of money until they get the rest of the system sorted out.

You have people making decisions that don’t have the proper knowledge to make those decisions, and getting paid to do so.

Waher

marlz827 said:

Do they make trv to handle higher then 2

A residential steam boiler ideally should not be running at any higher pressure than 1.5 PSI. 2 PSI is the max a boiler can run before it starts doing damage to radiator air vents.

Jamie Hall

marlz827 said:

Do they make trv to handle higher then 2

As I explained, it isn't the TRV, it's the vents. They are rated for a maximum working pressure of 3 psig, and will tolerate 15 psig once or maybe twice. Above 3 psig they will fail to operate until the pressure is reduced -- and they may fail either open or closed. Open is more likely.

I know of no residential radiator vents which are rated to function at higher pressures.

retiredguy

Correct me if I am wrong. A TRV that is mounted as is shown in the picture, in an enclosure has to have the temperature sensor and controller mounted remotely outside of the enclosure to work properly. Also, I used Hoffman rad vents on steam systems up to 5 PSI and Hoffman 70A vents on systems with pressures slightly above 5 PSI. There are a lot of older buildings that just will not heat properly at 1-1.5 psi steam pressure. I do not know if the problem is in the system design, improper piping, pipe sizes, or whatever. It was nice when the system could be set to the recommended low steam pressures but on some older steam jobs that was just not possible.

Neild5

KC_Jones said:

Few things to think about. A TRV such as you have is intended to help with a radiator that over heats, but that is after all efforts have bee made to make the system perform properly. Properly sized boiler, proper piping, proper venting, etc. Until all that is done a TRV shouldn't be considered. If everything is overheating as you say, then you definitely aren't balanced and the TRV's probably shouldn't have been installed. For me the spitting vent is an indication of existing issues that haven't been addressed that the TRV is now bringing to light. All that said, even if everything was right with the system, the way those are installed will prevent them from ever working properly. The TRV is reading the temperature in the cabinet and it needs to read the room temperature. You need an operator with a remote sensor that is mounted in the room to read room temperature. You also need to know the system pressure, steam should be run at very low pressure <1 psi, those valves have a maximum rating of 2 psi. With the vent spitting and the steam seeming to be able to push through them, I have a suspicion your pressure is too high and may ruin those valves, if it hasn't already. And finally, I'm not sure if those are supposed to be mounted vertically like that. They don't specifically say it can't, but they also only show them installed horizontally. For me, I'd be calling Tunstall to verify if that orientation is acceptable.

I was told by a Tunstall rep that the TRV has to be mounted horizontal to work properly. 

marlz827

Does anybody know in New York City if it’s code that a licensed plumber has to install these radiator steam vents properly And safe and residential buildings

EBEBRATT-Ed

@mariz827

You could have a plumber replace the vents but I doubt anyone would care who did it. Vents are replaceable parts that need changing from time to time