1927 boiler piping

michael_4

Good Afternoon,
I have a client who this last summer removed his radiator to tile the wall behind it.

They called me out to figure why the upstairs(2nd floor) radiators are not heating. Bled upstairs radiators and did not get any air. My thoughts are its flow-locked.

I was going to close off all the first floor radiator valves to force flow upstairs, hopefully. Well, all 1st floor valves are stuck open and I dare not take a wrench to them. The basement is completely finished so I do not have access to how it is piped. What is exposed is 2" black steel and I suspect quite possibly a 2 Pipe System versus a 1 Pipe or Series circuit.

I also suspect that the 97 year old piping did not take too well at being opened and then filled twice( he repaired a leak on said radiator).

Any ideas? I am quoting to replace all the 1st floor radiator return valves so they are operational again. Heat is working great to the 1st floor and basement(using mono-flow tees on main).

Thanks in advance!

WMno57

Check the pressure in the system, it may be too low to heat the second floor. Don't assume the gauge is reading the correct PSI. 20 psi is good. You might have 8 psi, which would be the root cause of 2nd floor no heat. Is the second floor it's own zone? Does it have its own circulator.
The first floor is working. If you replace all the valves on the first floor, you may open a can of worms for yourself.

mattmia2

is it a monoflo system? with 2" mains it sounds like it was gravity hot water(though there were some rare 2 gravity monoflo type systems). the valves could also be rebuilt rather than replaced.

are you getting water at all of the bleeders? what sort of expansion tank and air management does it have?

tim smith

What make of valves? There may be some rebuild kits for them via Tunstall. Pretty slick as then you don't have to fight the spuds and pipe connections. Just a thought.

tim smith

Also is it an overhead feed, you might just be low on pressure where you are getting gravity flow to lower floors and not to upper. Another possibility.
Tim

michael_4

Boiler pressure is 18 psig. we had steady, strong water pressure when purging 2nd floor radiators.

The expansion tank is attached to a fill valve that requires a tire pump to increase pressure in the boiler by pumping it up. It has that hollow sound when tapping on the air side.

When circulator operates the boiler pressure increases to just above 20 psig(21 psi). the only air separator is the Taco air scoop with an elbow located approx. 4" from the inlet. Its wrong but i cannot think of that being the issue.

I suspect some 97 year old rust and debris broke loose.
2nd floor pipes are cold on both inlet and outlet. Zero heat migration in off cycle. 2nd floor radiator valve are operational and all open.

michael_4

The water makeup is a Fill-Troll valve.

WMno57

"In 1923, Homer A. Thrush started the H.A. Thrush Company with his invention of the first circulator pump to move hot water through a residence, greatly improving the then-standard “gravity” hot water heating systems, making homes across the country more comfortable and economical for thousands of families."

https://www.thrushco.com/about-us
Your customer's 1927 home is right at the transition from gravity hot water to forced hot water. My 1916 home is definitely piped for gravity hot water. My four 2nd story radiators each have their own vertical (running through the 1st floor) supplies and returns off of the basement's main and return. So in my home, a single clog could not turn off all four 2nd story radiators. I have 2 1/2 inch (nominal) 3.5 inch actual diameter pipes that circle the basement. A home piped from day one for FHW would have much smaller pipes.

Jamie Hall

Wait, what? What requires a tire pump to increase fill pressure? The expansion tank, once drained and filled with the proper air pressure -- same as the system cold -- should never need to be pumped up. Leave it alone. If there is a pressure reducing valve on the makeup water feed,, that may need adjusting.

WMno57

Agree with Jamie. System pressure should be raised by adding more water. The only time to add air to the tank with a tire pump is when setting initial pressure upon installing the tank. This is done with the tank drained of water and off the system.
If the tank has a slow air loss through the Schrader valve, you can remove the tank and redo the initial pressure set procedure.