Are mod-con high efficiency boilers false economy Vs traditional cast iron over a longer time frame?

PC7060

My modcon based low temp system works like a charm.  The boiler cost less than our LG refrigerator and will probably last about the same, 15-20 years.  I think it’s interesting to want a boiler to last 30-40 years while sacrificing efficiency and control while routinely doling out 30-40 grand on a car or truck that typically is end of life within 15-20 years.  

Steamhead

That must have been a very expensive fridge...............

PC7060

Steamhead said:

That must have been a very expensive fridge...............

Should clarify it was just the boiler with misc parts for install. Of course, that was in 2020 when an Alpha 2 was  only $190!   

And yes, I was shocked at the price of a two door / 2 drawer LG. 

EBEBRATT-Ed

@PC7060

Your right. But some consider heating and AC as an evil that they have to pay to operate in fuel costs, pay to have it serviced and pay to have it installed /replaced. They see no value in it. They would rather spend their money on a new car or truck, a swimming pool, deck, hot tub etc that their friends and neighbors can see and use.

dko

Honestly, if distributors and installers here in NYC didn't pocket all con edison/national grid incentive money the cost of mod con installation would not be higher than that of a cast iron boiler. Especially after the homeowner also gets an incentive (which is not advertised enough). But doesn't work because no one wants to forward the discounts/rebates.

Program helps to incentivize supply houses to push more mod cons as they will get paid handsomely for each one. If for the proper application that'd be great! But there are quite many being sold and installed by those not even educated on them just for the money. I would think the incentives would be better used to lower the upfront cost of installation, but they are only being used to line pockets more.

If they were installed and maintained properly, the program would be a success. But when both the installer and homeowner have no idea about these units.. it's a nightmare. Homeowners are usually lied to so they go with the modcons. "save you on fuel costs! maintenance free!" But for NYC, merely saying it will free up space is enough for any family that has never touched their own boiler before.

clammy

Hey just to stir the pot all these incentives and rebates who you think is paying for it ? Do you think it’s a free money give away heck no that’s our tax paying being giving to some one who correctly fills out paper work and they get our money . It’s not the utlities money or the stock holders it’s our money it’s our free non existing form of barber called money . . In a lot of cases if the rebate is spoken about and not recieved the contractor ends up w mud on there face and an angry customer who excepted some refund coin . I leave all rebates and thoughts of rebates to the customer alone I never entertain the thoughts . I ve seen a lot of people who where better off money wise then everyone I ever known apply and get rebates on all sorts on nonsense which I find unethical being in short just milking the system and getting something for free just cause you can ,I find it even more disgusting when commercial building owners who neglect there hvac system for multi decades and get a 40 % discount of complete high eff package units w duct work and financing when they own the building are loaded but they hid there money and got us to pay for it . Being they have zero money are poor but yet own a commercial building which I believe they collect rent on strange dealo . Greed this is always after a total waste of my time fiquring out a job which I will not get because they can get it for 1/2 price from the gas or electric co .
Please don’t get me wrong I love mod cons love the tech the eff but what I dislike is putting the squeeze on customers who except 20 or 30 years for a boiler and to get sucker in replacement in 10 to 15 ,come on where s the eff of that only eff is the return customer to replace there wall hung when no one can it repair or the return on the investment of the repair is not merited , where is the Enviromental concerns of waste and energy required to make all this disposable junk ,not a concern it keeps the global economy functioning some what . There’s your bigger question . Is what you doing serving man kind conserving the natural resources and doing a service to man kind by conserving these things and not repeating the same over and over . Quite a predicament we find ourselves in possibly moral being the moral of needing more to continue in a constant non advancing circle of non logic running around in a circle getting zero done I think that’s no good .
I’m hoping one day the only thing needed to heat a home is a fart that low of a Btu requirement we would all be outta job but image zero co emissions next bring back the dinosaurs and we can start all over again and maybe not make the same mistakes over and over again .
Remember just stirring a pot
Peace and good luck clammy and happy and safe holidays to all ,no matter which pagan celebration you enjoy on this plain of duality . I like the wearing of goat leggings and Viking horns while slamming mead . lol

hot_rod

For the most part efficiency rebates come from the utilities, from rate payers $$. Some from govt no doubt
Taxpayers funded the $1.5 tn. tax break to the 1%ers. Did you get any of that? Many of those $$ went off-shore, did nothing for the economy.

Why not tell the customer the life expectancy of their appliance and let them decide? Some will prefer the potential longer life at lower efficiency, other may not.

I know you know the ethical thing to do is lay out the facts that you have, let the buyer make the choice. No need for any squeezing, or suckering


Stay warm in those goat leggings.

ethicalpaul

Considering how much tax money goes to corporate welfare and the military industrial complex, I sure as heck don't mind taking advantage of some energy saving incentives.

craigs2023

Thanks for all the detailed responses. Haven’t got around to running the numbers yet but will do.

it looks like my decision will be made for me by my home boss. 

For the basement reno., she is adamant that all heat/hw equipment be moved from the center of the house where it vents through a center chimney to a back room and have it vented out side of house. So that will cut back CI options considerably - EK resolute, GV90+ look to be the closest 

craigs2023

Gilmorrie said:

You already posed this exact question on DIY heating, and received extensive, thoughtful replies.

? what is DIY heating?

hot_rod

With side venting pay close attention to the requirements, or limitations. Above snowfall depth, away from windows, dryer vents, any vent openings.
If you go with a mod con separate the exhaust and intake by a couple feet. I don’t like to see concentric vents, to much potential for recirculation.