Questions about unstable water line and skimming

lizg

We recently had our 40-yr old boiler replaced with a Burnham IN9L and we now have a bouncing waterline (1-3” bounce) and water drip from top of the sight glass when the boiler is on. Our plumber flushed the boiler twice during the installation and returned a week later and did another flush, manually cleaned out a bunch of gunk from the pipes at lower front of boiler, and put in Surgex as a cleaner at the end of the process. He did not skim the boiler (and at the hourly rate for him, his assistant, and his apprentice, we’d rather attempt the skimming ourselves).

The Burnham Independence installation manual didn’t provide instructions for skimming, but I found instructions in Linhardt’s Field Guide to Steam Heat (p 157) and also just read the Nov 13 post “New boiler surging.” I have some lingering questions.

1. Our skim piping setup is not ideal because there’s very little space between the skim port and the adjacent wall. Our plumber attached an elbow and a standard hose bib and told us to run a standard hose from the gate valve to a bucket. This would reduce the path size for the skim water considerably. How important is it to maintain the 1.25 pipe size through the whole skimming setup? Should I ask our plumber to install a 1.25 gate valve and then find some hose attachment (where?) that would fit that?

2. Another question is about the instruction to switch the boiler on and off during skimming to maintain the water temperature below boiling point. I don’t know how I can tell whether the water is below or at boiling point and would prefer to skim with the boiler off the whole time. When making gravy it works fine to let the liquid cool somewhat before pouring off the fat on top. Couldn’t this work the same way with oil in the boiler water?

3. We don’t have a floor drain to our sewer line and would rather not run a hose from skim pipe to our sump pump in the adjacent laundry room because there is still the smell of oil (or Surgex?) coming off our boiler. At age 70, the thought of lugging pails of water out to the back alley isn’t appealing. I’ve read about using a small sump pump in a 5-gallon bucket to run skim water up and out of the basement through a hose, with the far hose end below the level of the skim piping. Any advice on how to do this, or whether to avoid it altogether?

4. I’ve read that an unstable water line can also be due to high pH, excess water treatment, or an over-fired boiler. Our plumber says that our city water has a fairly neutral pH, but we’ll test it anyway. We plan to ask our plumber to flush the boiler once more to get rid of the remaining Surgex before we start skimming. If skimming once or twice cleans up the water and we still have a bouncing water line, we’ll ask our plumber to look into the firing rate he set. Is there anything else to consider?

Note: We’ll be insulating the boiler piping soon.

Many thanks for your insights and advice!

I’ve attached some images:
1_Burnham IN9L front view


2_Side view showing skim piping close to brick wall


3_Pressuretrol


4_Sight glass with boiler off_white line is normal water level


5_Sight glass closeup_green color is from Surgex treatment


6_Linhardt skimming instructions


7_Skim piping with standard hose bib

ethicalpaul

In my experiments, high PH does not cause surging, but Surge-X does! But you don't need to drain it out before you skim. It will be removed by the skimming process.

I have experimented with a product called "Squick" which does actually "capture" the oil and allow it to precipitate to the bottom of the boiler where it can be flushed out. You might give that a try if you get desperate.

Heat the water to just lower than boiling (if it does start to boil, just let it cool/settle a bit before you start skimming). I wouldn't bother with trying to heat the water during skimming...I see no point. In fact, now I'm even questioning the need to heat the water at all, but maybe it serves to loosen up the oils.

Then start skimming. Your directions are fine. Yes I like to have the full size of the skim pipe rather than having it reduced down to the size of a hose fitting. I think the skimming goes faster this way--the oil is free to be carried out. But looking again at your photo, the oil will be carried out the horizontal part then fall to the reduced part, so that won't harm the skimming process.

I like to do a skim session starting with hot water then going until cool water is exiting the boiler, or until I get bored. You may have to haul some buckets but if it were me, I'd run the hose to the sump pump and open a window. It was weird of your installer to face the spigot away from you. Wait, is the elbow facing down, or is it horizontal?? He should have made it face downward.

Do you know if your installer put some TSP or other detergent into the boiler and ran it for awhile then drained it? That removes a LOT of oil and makes the skimming go a lot faster.

clammy

Here s a couple of hints . Have your plumber remove the boiler drain and reducer he installed on the Kim ,have him add a nipple long enough to go past the front of the boiler put an elbow and cut a drop piece to screw into the elbow for skimming ,when your done remove the drop piece and install a plug . As for lugging water get a 5 gallon bucket and a little rubber impeller pump wire a switch to it to turn on and off . Install a bulk head fitting x garden hose into the side of your bucket, attach a washer machine hose and you’re ready to go . I usually have a hose feeding cold water into the bucket when skimming while approach steaming it prolongs the impellers life so does some vegetable oil prior and after use .
It may be easier to drain the boiler completely remove the reducing bushing w the boiler drain on it and wash out the boiler w a wanding tool just a 1/2 copper pipe w a cap soldered on a a series of holes so to spray and wash each section out from the return tapping . I include it in every install after it’s been operating a few days usually a good flushing of returns and the boiler then draining , wanding and of course often over looked removal and cleaning of the lwco probe check safety piping and sight glass assembly for build up . I know it new well it s usually full of the mud and gunk ya flushed too .
It’s kinda funny a plumber / contractor replaces a steam boiler and doesn’t include cleaning the boiler but charges extra to come back after wards to do it . I guess it’s better then not getting a job by including it but then the price would have been to high for him to get the job . I guess a better business decision in the long run why not get paid for some thing you do .
Not to bash you but it’s shameful on the plumbers half to really to not do a complete job and get the boiler clean and free of oils and not surging . Pressuretrol cut in should be at .5 And the concentric reducer on the hortizontal steam isn’t the greatest should have used a reducing elbow on the riser ,other then that he did a nice piping job but the no skim is bull .
Peace and good luck clammy

lizg

Thanks for your ideas, @ethicalpaul and @clammy. The skim piping photo I posted earlier was misleading (shot from above). The piping (1.25 inch nipple to elbow to gate valve) is all horizontal:


@ethicalpaul -- you mentioned that the Surge-X will be removed by the skimming process. Is that because you end up draining off all the existing water as you replace it with fresh water during skimming? Also, our plumber wanted to use TSP, but then said he learned that TSP no longer contains the phosphate which made it so effective. I've since looked online and see a TSP with phosphate, so not sure where he got the info.

@clammy -- Not sure I understand your suggestions for the skim piping. What is a drop piece? I've sketched what I think you're describing onto the Burnham instructions for skim piping. Is this along the lines of what you're suggesting?



@clammy -- I've never heard of an impeller pump. Looked online, and guess that it pushes the water uphill, and would take it into garden hose up and out the basement window. Is that right?

@clammy -- Our plumber mentioned fabricating a wanding tool like you described. I'll ask him about it again.

@clammy -- We live in Montana, and here there are fewer and fewer residential steam systems (most 2-pipe systems have been converted to water) and almost no plumbers willing to install a new steam boiler. There was NO competition for the job! We were lucky to have found someone willing to install the boiler for our one-pipe system, even if it was on a time-and-materials basis ;-)

clammy

The pump I’m talking about is a simple little giant 110 volt transfer pump they come w garden hose connections ,they have them at most home centers the volute is plastics and so is the impeller they do the job and fairly cheap in todays world . Your skim drawing is correct and as for the wanding tool mention it to him it saves a lot of time . I don’t install burnhams but take a look at there block diagrams and u may have a tapping which will allow you to wand from the top also it really speeds thinks up skimming , on peerless it the safety tapping
Peace and good luck clammy

nde

You can definitely skim that yourself with that setup, use a hose as advised and run to a bucket or drain. Run the boiler for 5-10 minutes, then shut off power. Slowly open your bypass valve at feeder and it will take a few minutes or longer to reach the skim port. Once it starts to exit the port its just a waiting game or swapping buckets. Usually four 1 hour skim sessions is enough to get the oils out. You can skim again later in the season if still issues.

ethicalpaul

Considering he was your only option, you are very fortunate because he did a nice job on the near-boiler piping. The skimming is a one-time inconvenience so I'd say you ended up in a very good place on this install.

lizg

I'm belatedly posting a thank you and an update to my skimming question. Heeding your advice, we got our plumber to modify the skim piping (see lower right in attached photo) and to do another full drain/flush of the boiler. Since then the water in the sight glass has been clean and only moving up and down about 1/2 inch while the boiler is running. We now have a better setup for skimming when we need to do that in the future--and we now know how to do it. Many thanks for your help!