New boiler surging. More skimming or clean and flush

trivetman

New steammax 299 was installed late last winter.  Ive been through 4-5 cycles of seeing a surging waterline building pressure soon after making steam to the point where it triggers the vaporstat cutout at 12 oz.  I skim and everything is good for a week or so and then the surging starts again.

this is the first time following skimming that I haven’t seen a buildup of sediment in the sight glass, but I still have cascading water through the top of the sight glass while it’s steaming.

also if its relevant, I add some 8-way to bring ph up to between 9-10.

Wondering if I should just keep skimming (and how many more times) or be more aggressive and wash with tsp.  Wand washing I know is an option but am hoping to avoid dealing with that process if I can.

Some pics below for your viewing pleasure.

waterline prior to steaming:


Waterline at ‘low point’ while surging.  It typically cascades through top of the glass while it is low so I imagine the actual level in the boiler is high when this happens.

Other pics of the system.

ethicalpaul

It was probably too early to add treatment.

At this point, I would say keep skimming once per week until you no longer see signs like water level dropping or water bubbling in from top of gauge glass.

When you are sure it's no longer surging, then you can think about treatment. The skimming that you are going to be doing is going to wash out your existing treatment. That's fine.

I do think that running with TSP then draining and refilling is a good first step after installation, but you're probably past that. You should be able to get there with skimming.

PS: are you the homeowner or the installer? If you're the homeowner, good for you for knowing how to skim, but really the installer should have done all that and left you with a perfectly operating boiler.

PPS: I'd remove that elbow from your skim setup, it's not necessary and it makes it harder to see if oil is still coming out of the boiler.

PPPS: "I imagine the actual level in the boiler is high when this happens." I don't think so. I think the missing water is in your main or near boiler piping.

PPPPS: how was this boiler sized?

trivetman

I believe that the pros did do a tsp flush a couple weeks after install.  I didn’t witness it but theres an open box of tsp in the basement.

if more skimming is the answer,  thats easy.  I just wanted to make sure it was the right course.

when I skim,   I keep the flow just enough so its a steady stream.  Its just more than a drip but definitely thinner than a pencil.  Is that about right?  I am pretty sure I am not too fast but I might be too slow.

trivetman

Yes I am the HO.  And yes the installer did come back to do a clean/skim.   I cant say whether they were thorough enough or not with it but if oil is continually finding its way into the system it sounds like that would require multiple visits at $XXX per hour.  So doing some of it myself is just inevitable.

ethicalpaul

Well it should have been multiple visits already included in the installation price. But whatever, it's good for HO's to know this stuff.

ethicalpaul

I think this "pencil lead thin stream" is a little overboard. I mean why torture yourself?

I like the water level to be about 1/4 or 3/8 above the bottom of the skim pipe (another reason to remove that elbow so you can see the water level).

This much incoming water won't slosh around the oil, leaving it on top where you want it, and will let it flow out. This pencil thin stuff, how can the oil even make its way out of the boiler?

I think you're on the right track.

trivetman

ethicalpaul said:

PPS: I'd remove that elbow from your skim setup, it's not necessary and it makes it harder to see if oil is still coming out of the boiler.

I've tried to capture it in a clean pan to see any oils...and they seem invisible. The elbow just seems to cut down on splatter.

I may have been skimming a bit too slow. that might be part of why it's taking a few tries to clear everything. I'll try it again tonight with a little more flow.

ethicalpaul said:

PPPS: "I imagine the actual level in the boiler is high when this happens." I don't think so. I think the missing water is in your main or near boiler piping.

It may well be.

ethicalpaul said:

PPPPS: how was this boiler sized?

EDR Calculation.

ethicalpaul

The oils can be pretty invisible, especially after splashing down into a bucket or pan...but you can see the sheen from them as they pour out of a horizontal pipe on the water surface. Give it a try.

trivetman

Well….lets see if Ive got a wrench big enough!!

ChrisJ

After trying many different methods of skimming on my own boiler this is what I came up with.

https://youtu.be/nPKTSn-depc?si=shpJabBmVgR_iXSC

I'm 80% sure that was cool / cold water as well.

trivetman

@ChrisJ - could you see the oils with that flow?  Its much faster than I’ve been doing.

trivetman

Well….couldn’t get that elbow to budge.  Oh well.

Went much faster on the skimming tonight.  After 10-15 gallons skimmed over a couple hours I figured I had so much new water in the system I might as well flush it all to drain the sediment including the mud leg.

45 minute burn after all that and it never went over 2 oz pressure.  Lets hope it lasts.

ethicalpaul

If it doesn't last, no biggie just do a little more skimming. Congrats on not getting an oversized boiler

EBEBRATT-Ed

@trivetman

One skim done right usually does it if TSP is used. As far as the amount of water coming out while skimming most instructions say "diameter of a pencil" not diameter of the lead in the pencil but maybe we are talking the same thing.

I like Dan H method where you run the boiler to just below steam temp and shut it down and skim. And keep the burner off when skimming it just stirs the oil back in with the water. With the burner off the oil rises to the top and comes out the skim tapping.

Since the boiler looks like it's piped right the water coming into the top gage glass tapping is a sure sign it needed skimming.