Burner dropout after Roth Install

Brent H.

About a month ago I had my leaking steel tank replaced with a 275 gallon Roth. Tank is in the basement not far from my Buderus boiler with Riello burner. As recommended by Roth, a tiger loop was installed. I’m now noticing that the burner occasionally drops out right after starting but ignites and runs fine on retry. I had the burner serviced a couple weeks before the tank was changed. A few questions for the pros here:

Is my best bet to call my burner maint. company to come service it or call back the tank company?

Could the bypass plug not have been installed when the tiger loop was put in?

Does the burner need to be readjusted after installing the tiger loop?

Many thanks.

Big Ed_4

Did they pump in the old oil ?..... Burner needs to be cleaned again..

STEVEusaPA

It's possible they didn't put in the bypass plug. When first installed, I always pull oil to the tiger loop with a hand pump, or if it's a Tiger Loop ultra, fill the filter with clean oil before firing up the burner.

But it's also probably they didn't properly set up the combustion, especially overfire draft and excess (combustion air).

EBEBRATT-Ed

I hate overhead lines. I doubt that combustion changed by installing a new tank. Are you getting any air in the Tiger loop on the first start or second start?

Did you have an overhead line before the Roth tank was installed or under the floor?

STEVEusaPA

EBEBRATT-Ed said:

...I doubt that combustion changed by installing a new tank...

Happens a lot. Not from the tank. From setting them up when the weather is warm, not accounting for what is going to happen when it gets colder, like increased draft, and increased excess air being pulled thru the burner.

Brent H.

@Big Ed_4

Yes, oil was transferee but filtered on the pump out and when pumped back in. Unfortunately, the tank was almost full when the leak started and with winter coming waiting wasn’t an option.

@EBEBRATT-Ed

Old tank had one pipe along the floor to the burner, not overhead. I did take a good look at the tigerloop and there is a large amount of air bubbles swirling around. Is there any way to tell if the air is leaking in between tank and tigerloop or if it is between tigerloop and burner?

Thanks.

Brent H.

So I just watched the tigerloop during a cycle. When the burner starts, there are no air bubbles. After a minute or 2, the air bubbles appear. I assume it is when the level drops enough to let more oil in.

STEVEusaPA

Brent H. said:

So I just watched the tigerloop during a cycle. When the burner starts, there are no air bubbles. After a minute or 2, the air bubbles appear. I assume it is when the level drops enough to let more oil in.

That would indicate a vacuum leak.

Brent H.

@STEVEusaPA

Agreed. But is it the cause of my intermittent issue since the purpose of the tigerloop is to remove the air? Or is it a secondary issue?

EBEBRATT-Ed

I was going to say in my first post that it was acting like a suction leak. Guess the Tiger loop can't fix everything.

@Brent H.

I guess you need to call the tnk people back if you trust them if not maybe your oil company who can also test combustion.

Your pulling air in between the tank and the Tiger loop most likely.

If the oil lines are tight you should see no air in the tiger loop after the inital start up and purging

Steamhead

A bad flare can cause this.

Brent H.

I redid the flares, changed the filter, and redid the joints around the firomatic next to the tigerloop and I’m still seeing tiny bubbles. Any suggestions on how to figure out where the issue is? How long should it take for any air to be cleared out after having the piping apart?

Here’s what both ends of my setup look like. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

EBEBRATT-Ed

Does the burner run and you only have a few bubble in the TL or is the TL full of air?

As @STEVEusaPA mentioned did they put the bypass plug in the pump??

Brent H.

@EBEBRATT-Ed The burner runs except for the occasionally dropping out after startup. On retry, it goes fine. I think this is related to adjustments made when they cleaned it. I see a bunch of tiny bubble like shown above when the tigerloop lets oil in.

I haven’t checked for the bypass plug but can see the oil circulating in the tigerloop.

pecmsg

Is that an oil drip on the packing nut of the fire Matic?

Brent H.

@pecmsg All dry there. That is the metal tag with the temperature rating I think you are seeing.

HVACNUT

Pull the cover off the burner. Loosen (don't remove) the 3 torx screws and pull straight back.
Any oil around?

Brent H.

@HVACNUT All dry under the cover and also confirmed the bypass plug is installed.

Still trying to understand if I should be chasing the cause of the air bubbles in the tigerloop when it adds oil to the bowl of just let it do its thing. May have to have a tech come out and reset everything to latest pressure and specs. That’s what it took last time I had an intermittent issue at startup.

HVACNUT

Somewhere between the inlet of the Tiger Loop and the tank. 
You need a vacuum gauge. 

Brent H.

Suggestions on best place to put it and good gauge to get from supplyhouse.com would be appreciated.

fueloilrich631

Seems like you have an air leak somewhere. It's a new install, call the installer back to fix it.

EBEBRATT-Ed

Put a threaded tee on either side of the firomatic. Between the firomatic and the TL is probably best and put the gauge on the tee

HVACNUT

Brent H. said:

Suggestions on best place to put it and good gauge to get from supplyhouse.com would be appreciated.

I didn't mean you specifically. I meant the tech. A reading can be taken at the fuel pump and at the inlet to the TL. 

Brent H.

Wanted to post an update to close out this thread. I tried a bunch of things and still had bubbles in the tiger loop. The burner stopped firing one night and I had a tech come out and adjust the burner. I talked to him about the bubbles and he suggested I remove the filter that was at the tank and use a tigerloop ultra at the boiler. I’ve since changed to the tigerloop ultra and removed the filter at the tank and reconfigured the supply line from the tank so it is continuous copper from within the tank, through the duplex fitting, to the firematic. This eliminated a bunch of possible leak points. Everything is running good with no bubbles.

Thanks for the help.