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Burner dropout after Roth Install

Brent H.
Brent H. Member Posts: 162
About a month ago I had my leaking steel tank replaced with a 275 gallon Roth. Tank is in the basement not far from my Buderus boiler with Riello burner. As recommended by Roth, a tiger loop was installed. I’m now noticing that the burner occasionally drops out right after starting but ignites and runs fine on retry. I had the burner serviced a couple weeks before the tank was changed. A few questions for the pros here:

Is my best bet to call my burner maint. company to come service it or call back the tank company?

Could the bypass plug not have been installed when the tiger loop was put in?

Does the burner need to be readjusted after installing the tiger loop?

Many thanks.


Comments

  • Big Ed_4
    Big Ed_4 Member Posts: 3,020
    Did they pump in the old oil ?..... Burner needs to be cleaned again..

    There was an error rendering this rich post.

  • STEVEusaPA
    STEVEusaPA Member Posts: 6,505
    It's possible they didn't put in the bypass plug. When first installed, I always pull oil to the tiger loop with a hand pump, or if it's a Tiger Loop ultra, fill the filter with clean oil before firing up the burner.

    But it's also probably they didn't properly set up the combustion, especially overfire draft and excess (combustion air).

    There was an error rendering this rich post.

  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 16,501
    I hate overhead lines. I doubt that combustion changed by installing a new tank. Are you getting any air in the Tiger loop on the first start or second start?

    Did you have an overhead line before the Roth tank was installed or under the floor?
    MaxMercy
  • STEVEusaPA
    STEVEusaPA Member Posts: 6,505

    ...I doubt that combustion changed by installing a new tank...

    Happens a lot. Not from the tank. From setting them up when the weather is warm, not accounting for what is going to happen when it gets colder, like increased draft, and increased excess air being pulled thru the burner.

    There was an error rendering this rich post.

    MikeAmann
  • Brent H.
    Brent H. Member Posts: 162
    @Big Ed_4

    Yes, oil was transferee but filtered on the pump out and when pumped back in. Unfortunately, the tank was almost full when the leak started and with winter coming waiting wasn’t an option.

    @EBEBRATT-Ed

    Old tank had one pipe along the floor to the burner, not overhead. I did take a good look at the tigerloop and there is a large amount of air bubbles swirling around. Is there any way to tell if the air is leaking in between tank and tigerloop or if it is between tigerloop and burner?

    Thanks.


  • Brent H.
    Brent H. Member Posts: 162
    So I just watched the tigerloop during a cycle. When the burner starts, there are no air bubbles. After a minute or 2, the air bubbles appear. I assume it is when the level drops enough to let more oil in.
  • STEVEusaPA
    STEVEusaPA Member Posts: 6,505
    Brent H. said:

    So I just watched the tigerloop during a cycle. When the burner starts, there are no air bubbles. After a minute or 2, the air bubbles appear. I assume it is when the level drops enough to let more oil in.

    That would indicate a vacuum leak.

    There was an error rendering this rich post.

    GrallertMaxMercy
  • Brent H.
    Brent H. Member Posts: 162
    @STEVEusaPA

    Agreed. But is it the cause of my intermittent issue since the purpose of the tigerloop is to remove the air? Or is it a secondary issue?
    Grallert
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 16,501
    I was going to say in my first post that it was acting like a suction leak. Guess the Tiger loop can't fix everything.

    @Brent H.

    I guess you need to call the tnk people back if you trust them if not maybe your oil company who can also test combustion.

    Your pulling air in between the tank and the Tiger loop most likely.

    If the oil lines are tight you should see no air in the tiger loop after the inital start up and purging
  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 17,387
    A bad flare can cause this.
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Towson, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
    MaxMercy
  • Brent H.
    Brent H. Member Posts: 162
    I redid the flares, changed the filter, and redid the joints around the firomatic next to the tigerloop and I’m still seeing tiny bubbles. Any suggestions on how to figure out where the issue is? How long should it take for any air to be cleared out after having the piping apart?

    Here’s what both ends of my setup look like. Any suggestions would be appreciated.



  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 16,501
    Does the burner run and you only have a few bubble in the TL or is the TL full of air?

    As @STEVEusaPA mentioned did they put the bypass plug in the pump??
  • Brent H.
    Brent H. Member Posts: 162
    edited November 2023
    @EBEBRATT-Ed The burner runs except for the occasionally dropping out after startup. On retry, it goes fine. I think this is related to adjustments made when they cleaned it. I see a bunch of tiny bubble like shown above when the tigerloop lets oil in.

    I haven’t checked for the bypass plug but can see the oil circulating in the tigerloop.
  • pecmsg
    pecmsg Member Posts: 5,298


    Is that an oil drip on the packing nut of the fire Matic?
  • Brent H.
    Brent H. Member Posts: 162
    @pecmsg All dry there. That is the metal tag with the temperature rating I think you are seeing.
    MikeAmann
  • HVACNUT
    HVACNUT Member Posts: 6,338
    Pull the cover off the burner. Loosen (don't remove) the 3 torx screws and pull straight back.
    Any oil around?
  • Brent H.
    Brent H. Member Posts: 162
    @HVACNUT All dry under the cover and also confirmed the bypass plug is installed.

    Still trying to understand if I should be chasing the cause of the air bubbles in the tigerloop when it adds oil to the bowl of just let it do its thing. May have to have a tech come out and reset everything to latest pressure and specs. That’s what it took last time I had an intermittent issue at startup.
  • HVACNUT
    HVACNUT Member Posts: 6,338
    Somewhere between the inlet of the Tiger Loop and the tank. 
    You need a vacuum gauge. 
  • Brent H.
    Brent H. Member Posts: 162
    Suggestions on best place to put it and good gauge to get from supplyhouse.com would be appreciated.

  • fueloilrich631
    fueloilrich631 Member Posts: 16
    Seems like you have an air leak somewhere. It's a new install, call the installer back to fix it.
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 16,501
    Put a threaded tee on either side of the firomatic. Between the firomatic and the TL is probably best and put the gauge on the tee
  • HVACNUT
    HVACNUT Member Posts: 6,338
    Brent H. said:
    Suggestions on best place to put it and good gauge to get from supplyhouse.com would be appreciated.
    I didn't mean you specifically. I meant the tech. A reading can be taken at the fuel pump and at the inlet to the TL.