Giant Hole in Giant Pipe

watercress

This is a toilet drain. Toilet has been off for several years. It appears there has always been a small leak given the drywall in bathroom below shows signs of small leak over time.

After finally replacing the toilet with new one and turning water on, a good amount of water was leaking downstairs. Thought maybe I didn't seat the toilet right and redid that. So I tore the drywall out to reveal this pretty big hole in the drain pipe for toilet:

The pipe is about 4 inches thick or so.
Its gotta be from deterioration over time I would think, as I don't see how frozen pipes could cause that given there's no water in the pipe unless flushing.

I've never fixed a pipe this big before so I'm wondering what I should do.

Thanks.

Larry Weingarten

Hi, That's a copper pipe, which is a quality and fire safe way of doing things, but clearly it has corroded through along its bottom side. I'd expect this thinning from corrosion along the bottom of any horizontal pipe. Certainly it can be patched temporarily, but if plastics, like ABS or PVC are allowed, I'd start switching over to one of those materials as they are not affected by this sort of corrosion.

Yours, Larry

watercress

It can be patched? Or do I need to cut it out and solder new pipe in like with a normal copper pipe breakage?

Jamie Hall

Well... it could be patched. There's not much pressure there. However. If it has corroded through in one location, I'd more or less assume that the rest of the pipe is at least getting thin. I'd replace the whole section.

That is not going to be easy. You don't have much clearance to wood framing there, so be ultra careful how you wave that torch around, and have a bucket of water for when things start to char.

EBEBRATT-Ed

@watercress

A couple of ways to do a temp patch but I don't think that is what you want.

You could replace the copper.

or If the rest of the copper to the right looks ok you could use a Fernco rubber copper to plastic(ABS or PVC) adapter and run plastic up to the toilet with a new flange

Teemok

That looks like an acid channel. Maybe an owner had a drain-o habit or had very acidic urine or cleaned the bowl with vinegar all the time. I'd bet the bottom is thin for some distance down that pipe. Temporary patch: careful flat rubber and silicone with very light hose clamp force. Larry is right, replace as much as you can reasonably with plastic.

watercress

Well I suppose if doing this right requires replacing the flange then atleast I'll be able to install it the right way. Previous builder has almost all of them in the house facing the wrong direction, so I've had to use washers to jerry rig the toilet bolts in place.

MikeAmann

The bend radius of the PVC elbow is going to be greater than the copper - IOW it's not a direct fit replacement. You might have to do some careful trimming of the new fitting to make it fit.

hot_rod

It looks like 3” copper, so probably 3-1/8” od.
Follow it back to where it is in good shape, maybe back to the next brass fitting.
Replace it with PVC or ABS. They make a transition coupling to go from copper to plastic, or a French rubber coupling
A new flange and 3” ell

Teemok

French rubber coupling sounds sus. What the heck is that? No hub or frenco?

Larry Weingarten

Hi @watercress , I should ask where you are. I know that San Francisco has rules against using plastics over concerns of fire spreading too easily through buildings. Local code affects the advice we can give you. It's unusual for a drain line to be done in copper unless it's done to satisfy code.

Yours, Larry

mattmia2

someone's fernco got auto corrected

mattmia2

Larry Weingarten said:

Hi @watercress , I should ask where you are. I know that San Francisco has rules against using plastics over concerns of fire spreading too easily through buildings. Local code affects the advice we can give you. It's unusual for a drain line to be done in copper unless it's done to satisfy code.

Yours, Larry

Or it was done in the 60's to early 70's when they stopped using steel and cast iron so much but pvc was still new.

watercress

It's in Alaska and built around 1965, after the earthquake.

I don't mind just putting copper back in, I've always replaced everything else with same material it was built with. But 3 inch copper pipe isn't something they sell at Lowes. Going to check with a plumber supply store come Monday.

That being said, there is PVC in certain places throughout the home. Kitchen sink drain in the wall looks PVC. And there's PVC in the walls in the basement laundry room, which is I think where all the drains from toilets etc meets up before going to the city sewer, although I'm not entirely sure yet.

Mad Dog_2

French Coupling? Was that a Typo?  Never heard of that.  If you wanna try to patch it fir now.  Clean the rotted area up wit a 3 M Pad, wipe clean and dry and use a 2 part epoxy over it.  That could get you by for a few more years.  Otherwise, you'd be best getting a good plumber to cut it out and replace properly.  Mad Dog 🐕 

Teemok

"Frenco" when your spelling is worse than an auto correct mistake.

Mad Dog_2

Frenchie....Mad Dog 🐕 

hot_rod

Copper DWV was common back when I started plumbing with my Dad in the 1960. I hoarded a few of those old copper DWV fittings. Like this closet flange base on the copper harp.

I think DWV copper tube had a yellow stripe to identify it.

MikeAmann

What is that thing? A church organ?
You can't use it in California if the solder has lead.

PC7060

mattmia2 said:

Hi @watercress , I should ask where you are. I know that San Francisco has rules against using plastics over concerns of fire spreading too easily through buildings. Local code affects the advice we can give you. It's unusual for a drain line to be done in copper unless it's done to satisfy code. Yours, Larry

Or it was done in the 60's to early 70's when they stopped using steel and cast iron so much but pvc was still new.

Agree. My old house had 2” copper drain and vent in the section that was added in that time frame (late 60s)

Alan (California Radiant) Forbes

I'd wrap it in Denso tape which is a polypropylene fleece saturated with a petroleum compound that repels water. Messy to use, but gets the job done.

https://www.amazon.com/Densyl-Tape-Shipping-Located-DENTAPE50MM/dp/B001OXDD6K/ref=sr_1_2?crid=2G7SCD50ME68&keywords=denso+tape&qid=1699231611&sprefix=denso,aps,140&sr=8-2&th=1

Mad Dog_2

Yes D.W.V. copper is Yellow.  The Levitt Houses were plumbed in it...Great system Mad Dog 🐕 

hot_rod

Mad Dog_2 said:

Frenchie....Mad Dog 🐕 

Shame on me for omitting the superior Italian Coupling. Much more stylish too 👔

hot_rod

I think the original Sovent system, back in the late 1950s was a copper system with the special aerator and deareator fittings. A single vent thru the roof.

reggi

hot_rod said:

Copper DWV was common back when I started plumbing with my Dad in the 1960. I hoarded a few of those old copper DWV fittings. Like this closet flange base on the copper harp. I think DWV copper tube had a yellow stripe to identify it.

I think you may have something @Mad Dog_2  doesn't have in his collection 

Mad Dog_2

At one time I was the Sanford & Son of Long Ian's and Eastern Queens Plumbing & Heating, and had my 1899 Barn filled with antiquities and treasures. To the Hay loft!! Dan saw it, Steamhead Saw it and Noel Murdough (RIP) not only saw it but we'd spend hours on the weekends sifting through stuff and drinking beer 😉.
.talking About The Steam and injection mixing...et cetera.. The Man was a Genius like Dan and Steamhead, Hot Rod,, Rich Mc Grath, ClammyGraham, Etheridge Jim Davis,, Mark Hunt....sorry if I left anyone out..Great memories. But when I found out HH had w little museum I brought stuff there. 

A few years later, Dan, TLM & The Elves were relocating to another store and I took some of the stuff and what I had to Prof Eugene Silverstone the Director of Suffolk County CC HVAC program.  I loaded the Triple Crown Box 📦 Truck and Eugene gleefully took it and displayed it proudly.

I recently called and emailed that Suffolk CC HVAC Department and emailed multiple times. Once Eugene Left...I have new things to bring there but get ZERO response.  If anyone from Suffolk CC sees this please contact me yea or nea...Thanks Mad Dog 🐕