Taco 007e vs 007

MaxMercy

Guys, will a 007e provide its claimed electrical efficiency in a very conventional hydronic system if replacing the original 007 circulators?

My system is a two circulator hydronic with two air handlers using a Taco circulator controller 403-4, but there are no "smart" controls except for the hydrostat 3250+.

If the E version will save electricity (expensive where I am), I'm willing to pay extra for it.

EBEBRATT-Ed

Taco claims they will save 85% of the electric cost that an oo7 uses

hot_rod

At least 50% just by being a more efficient motor.
The 85% would be if it can cover your load at an even lower gpm/ rpm.

To know that you would need to calculate your circuits, determine what gpm they need.

Or the trial and error method of just cranking down to the lowest speed to get the job done.

There were some rebates out there for upgrading circulators.
Snoop around at www.dsireusa.org. Click on your state.

SteveSan

Some of the features of the 007e vs 007-F5

BIO BARRIER® protects the circulator from system contaminants (Cast Iron only)

SureStart®, a Taco exclusive feature, is your no-callback safety net. It automatically purges air and unblocks the pump to keep it trouble-free.

Convenience. The 007e makes your job easier.
• Dual electrical knock-outs
• 6″ stranded wire leads for easy wiring
• Double Insulated. No ground necessary.
• Integral Flow Check (IFC®) included

If you have any questions, please give Taco Technical Services a call during normal business hours Mon-Fri 8am-5pm EST 401-942-8000

Robert_25

MaxMercy said:

Guys, will a 007e provide its claimed electrical efficiency in a very conventional hydronic system if replacing the original 007 circulators? My system is a two circulator hydronic with two air handlers using a Taco circulator controller 403-4, but there are no "smart" controls except for the hydrostat 3250+. If the E version will save electricity (expensive where I am), I'm willing to pay extra for it.

Yes, but the ROI will likely be long if the original 007s are working fine.

MaxMercy

Robert_25 said:

Yes, but the ROI will likely be long if the original 007s are working fine

I have a locked rotor that I need to swap out, and was thinking about the e version. Are these reliable?

John

Robert_25

In that case go for the 007E.  From what I have heard they are holding up well.

MaxMercy

One other question. I don't think my current 007s have integral flow checks, but it seems to be an option on the e version, is that correct?

Robert_25

Yes, you can remove it if not needed in your application.

SteveSan

The IFC is placed inside the box and not installed from the factory. If you need it, just install into the discharge port.

Dave H_2

@MaxMercy. Performance wise, the 007 and the 007e are very close to each other.

The 007 standard AC version uses 80 watts when its running. The 007e uses 44 watts when running full speed, however since it is a variable speed circ, the low is 4 watts. Depending upon the flow your system is using you could be anywhere in between 4 and 44 watts of consumption.

Electrical savings per year will vary per project but the offset in the higher cost is typically a year to a year and a half. Electrical savings can be anywhere from $25-35 per winter per circ.

(I prefer to use offset rather than ROI, ROI infers that you are making money on using the more efficient version, i.e. you spend 100 bucks and it gives you back $110! The only way a circulator is going to make you money is if it goes out and gets a job!)

I would never replace a perfectly working circ with an ECM version in order to save electricity, however if changing due to need, then I would go with the ECM version.

The new Taco ECM circulators come with the IFC check valve in the box, not installed. If your existing system has an external flo-chek, then do not use the IFC.

Taco has been manufacturing the 007e in Cranston since 2016 and our Italian counterpart has been in production since 1999, so there is a proven track record.

Dave H.

MaxMercy

Dave H_2 said:

The 007 standard AC version uses 80 watts when its running. The 007e uses 44 watts when running full speed, however since it is a variable speed circ, the low is 4 watts. Depending upon the flow your system is using you could be anywhere in between 4 and 44 watts of consumption.
.

Thanks Dave. My system doesn't have any provision for dynamically adjusting the speed of the circulators - does the E version of the 007 have an internal processor that tracks usage and adjusts itself accordingly?

Dave H_2

That is correct, it is a pressure dependent circulator and it is all self contained, the speed that is chosen is derived based upon your system particulars (size of pipe, length of run....).

Joe Mattiello

they're both great pumps. However, the 007e is ECM technology, as opposed to PSC type which runs hotter and that could be perceived as inefficiency. the ECM pumps run closer to Synchronous speed which results in higher efficiency. DOE is going after smaller circulators and taco will comply as we did with commercial pumps.

takoateli

I really like the 007e.

But you can have problems if you use it for a hydronic loop off a steam boiler without heat exchanger or tankless coil, meaning if the pump is pumping the steam boiler water.

The permanent magnets in the 007e tend to attract and collect all the ferrous debris in the water and it causes problems.

tonythegasman

TACO 007e are very troublesome and are a POS. I've already been back to numerous jobs. Over the last year I've replaced over 30 that we're that we're installed with a boiler swap.

"SureStart®, a Taco exclusive feature, is your no-callback safety net. It automatically purges air and unblocks the pump to keep it trouble-free."
Maybe in the lab but not in a real world scenario. I will stick with the 007.

pecmsg

tonythegasman said:

TACO 007e are very troublesome and are a POS. I've already been back to numerous jobs. Over the last year I've replaced over 30 that we're that we're installed with a boiler swap. "SureStart®, a Taco exclusive feature, is your no-callback safety net. It automatically purges air and unblocks the pump to keep it trouble-free." Maybe in the lab but not in a real world scenario. I will stick with the 007.

WOW

So o wise one

what would recommend?

maybe contact member @Dave H_2

HVACNUT

tonythegasman said:

TACO 007e are very troublesome and are a POS. I've already been back to numerous jobs. Over the last year I've replaced over 30 that we're that we're installed with a boiler swap. 

Were the piping systems flushed during these "swaps"?

I guess I'll find out. My boiler has 007's with the IFC in the volute. A couple weeks ago I heard one grinding away. 20 years is a good run. Anyway, I had a 007e from a training class a few year back, and tossed it in. So far, so good. No purge necessary. 

Erin Holohan Haskell

tonythegasman said:

TACO 007e are very troublesome and are a POS. I've already been back to numerous jobs. Over the last year I've replaced over 30 that we're that we're installed with a boiler swap.

"SureStart®, a Taco exclusive feature, is your no-callback safety net. It automatically purges air and unblocks the pump to keep it trouble-free."
Maybe in the lab but not in a real world scenario. I will stick with the 007.

@tonythegasman, I recommend you contact the Taco team directly to troubleshoot and I'm sure they will gladly help. I see that you're new here and it concerns me that your first post is a blanket statement on an old discussion calling a product a POS. We've built a community of mutual respect here and are focused on finding solutions to problems. If you have a problem with a product, tell us why so that we can have a productive conversation and get to the bottom of it. Coming here just to bash a product is not helpful to anyone and it's not what we're here for.

Dave H_2

Good morning all,

The SureStart feature of the 007e, 0015e3 and the 0018e has two functions.

The first is an air purge of the circulator not the system. If there is air stuck behind IFC, the circulator can sense this. It will do a quick change of speed to try and burp the air out of the volute to send it around to the air elimination device. When this happens, the light will flash a quick white color and then go back to orange (in case of the 007e and the 0015e3) or whatever mode the circ is set in with the 0018e. If the air cannot be removed automatically and the motor starts to get hot, it will shut down and the light will turn red. This prevents the circulator from burning out. In order to reset it, just power it down and restart.

I find this happens often to circulators when systems have been replaced during the summer months and there is still entrained air in the system, it slowly works it way out of solution and settles behind the check valve. Then when the call for heat finally happens......

The second function of SureStart is seized rotor protection. When an impeller is not spinning, something has it jammed like a solder ball, splinters or whatever is in the water, the motor will stop, shake back and forth and then restart to its highest speed that has been programmed in. The lights will change again to a white and red flash. This function will happen about a 100 times in a 15 minute timeframe. If it doesn't clear the jam, it will turn off and the light will turn a solid red.

These features cannot be forced to occur, it is built into the circ to make it trouble free and long lasting. If you are experiencing other issues, please do not hesitate to contact your local Taco rep (here if you are not sure) or Tech Services at Taco

and here is a video I made showing the functionality of the circ

I hope this helps