Losing my mind

youroldpaldp

Hello!

I have a boiler that will not let me purge the darn top floors. It's nothing like my old system so I am going in blind.

It is a 2 story 2,350 sq ft house with 3 zones. Two upstairs and one large downstairs.

Here is what I have done so far:

+ Checked ever last heater for a bleeder. NONE. 

+ Went insane wondering why the bleeder on the heater itself is installed sideways.

+ Replaced all gate valves and put in an extra on each because I like to double valve stuff. 

+ The old purge valve was bad (or so I thought) so I installed new valves. The large 1" is the return (I hope).

+ The small 1/2 ball valve is because there is a heater right below that heats the garage regardless of what zone is on. I figured maybe it needed a valve so the water wasn't just purging the garage unit.

+ Turned off the boiler. Opened a zone.

+ Closed the new return valves (both 1 and 1/2") and hooked up a hose, opened the gate valves to the hose and hit the pressure bypass on the fill line. Got to about 25 psi. 

Here is what happened for each zone:

+ Dirty water came out of the hose for about a minute, with bubbles....then it came out clean. Few tiny bubbles but nothing crazy. Seemed way too clean too fast for a house my size.

+ As soon as I close either top floor zone I can hear air in the pipes gurgling upstairs, like the air made it a few feet down the pipe but nowhere near my beloved purge hose. 

+ I closed the valves, let the pressure get down to 15psi and screamed at everything with a cooped pipe attached to it.

I have done everything, including the screaming part two days in a row. I tried to turn the heater on upstairs and can hear just massive amounts of air. It sounds like a creepy Halloween dungeon sound effect CD.

Thank you all very much for your time and help

hot_rod

Put your fill hose on the bottom most hose valve.
Then you need a shut off above the pump, but below the valve you are purging out of, the upper hose bib.
I think you may just be flushing the boiler, not going around the system?

Ironman

Another issue: that’s a potable water expansion tank, not a hydronic one. The air charge pressure is set too high.

neilc

Is that a sideways air vent ?
2nd to last picture, is that an air vent sitting sideways ?
am I seeing that correctly?
no good, remove it or tighten the cap down hard, never to be used again,

under where the hose is,
isn't that a flat head ball valve, for the purge?
loosen that packing, does that flat head turn?
slot = open/close, like a handle,
then when the upper bubbles stop, burp the ball valve,

youroldpaldp

The flat head turns, but I assumed it wasn't working since I couldn't get the system to purge. Yeah, the vent is sideways, it has been driving me nuts. It was leaking when we got the house so I tightened it all the way. 

neilc

open that main red ball valve and try the purge using the slot head,
perpendicular to purge the zone upstairs, then bubble free, burp the slot a couple times,
also, set your pressure up to 20~25 while purging to force things a bit,
you know to have only one zone valve open at a time, correct?
boiler off, and use the manual levers on the zone valves,
one zone bubble free, burp the slot, next zone bubble free, burp the slot,

neilc

what's the small 1/2" return line going down thru the floor, and I guess its supply right there next to it?
probably should force water thru there too,

youroldpaldp

The small ball valve goes to the garage heater. Both lines that go straight down are for a little heater right below the boiler to heat the garage. It doesn't have its own zone so it is on whenever the heater is on. I put the valve in so the water didn't take the path of least resistance and just flush out one tiny spot every time.

Will give it another shot tomorrow after work and fill you in on the progress. 

The issue I was having with both the slot and the ball valve is the water came out clean too fast. It didn't seem like it was even going through the zones. I left one zone open for a solid 20 minutes and don't think there was any progress whatsoever. (One zone at a time, locked in the open position). The pressure was at about 25 lbs with the pressure regulator wide open. 

The zones do indeed open though, since when the heat is actually on I can hear it trying to circulate all the air. That sound will haunt me forever.....

pedmec

Like Bob said, you need a valve above the circulator so you can purge each zone one at a time.

youroldpaldp

Oh.
My.
Gosh. 

I see what you mean by the valve placement guys! Where I have it, I am closing the loop on the wrong side! I went out and just gave my system a nice stare down while thinking about what you said....and after an embarrassing amount of time realized that I put my return valve shut off on the wrong side!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Here is what I am going to do after work: shut BOTH valves, I know the ball valve I installed works, so if I shut that and the purge valve I will know if the old slot purge valve works or not. I have a sneaking suspicion it does not.... Since I wasn't able to purge any air originally.

I will know where to go from there. Updates to follow. You guys are the best! Now I can look all smart and heroic in front of my wife by fixing this.

youroldpaldp

 IT WORKS!!! I replaced the bad valve and voila! All that nasty Air and water from the upstairs is coming out wonderfully. THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH!!!

HVACNUT

See? It's not just a hat rack.

realliveplumber

Please move the flammable cardboard box away from the extremely hot flue pipe.

Teemok

You want an air vent somewhere. Get a good air separator and cut out the sideways vent. Pipe a high loop going up and over the flue bonnet near the draft damper with the separator on the high horizontal then pipe back down to existing piping. At the very least put a threaded plug where the sideways vet is and change the first 90 off the supply piping out of the top of the boiler to a tee and put a new working vent there.