Lessons Learned Cataloging Old Pumps in the Catskills

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Lessons Learned Cataloging Old Pumps in the Catskills

Dan Holohan recalls the challenges of supplying pumps for the heating systems at Grossinger’s Catskill Resort Hotel in the 1980s.

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Paul Pollets

I remember the B&G parts and pumps bins were floor to ceiling taking 2 rooms at my father's supply house. Somebody was listening...Either Lin Patterson or Ed Collins

Paul Pollets

Pumps and Parts

WMno57

Three thoughts:
The Catskills might see a resurgence when electric cars limit the distance families can travel for vacation and air fares rise. Warren Buffet made a lot of money by being a buyer when there is blood in the streets.
Supply chain problems then and now. Too much inventory is expensive. Too little inventory can be more expensive when figuring in the cost of lost business and downtime.
Wet rotor pumps might use less electricity, but don't hold up in less than perfect water. My B&G pump does just fine with well water, a 75 YO boiler, and 105 YO pipes and radiators. Credit to @mattmia2 for that knowledge. Wasting electricity, but saving money!

hot_rod

I'd challenge that saving money theory?

If my math is correct.

B&G series 100 online at $612
Grundfos Alpha $245 at same site

B&G Series 100 210 W
Grundfos Alpha 37W

So almost 6 times as much power consumption, with the series 100!
Call it 3000 hours per year run time, plug in your Kwh rate....

at .20/Kwh. $126 per year for the series 100
$22.00 per year for the Alpha, or less if it can modulate.

So 20 years of electricity will cost $2500 for the series 100 vs $440 for the ECM wet rotor. Plenty of $$ to buy a spare Alpha

If in fact you have bad water, which could be fixed I doubt the Series 100 will run 20 years without bearing or coupling service. They need routine oiling also. A B&G replacement motor at the same online site is $595.00!

No doubt the Series 100 is a work horse, a very inefficient one, but much better options are available now a days.

Mad Dog_2

Great story Dan..Kiamesha Lake Forever!  Jackie Mason, Buddy Hackett, Sid Caesar, Henry Youngman, Don Rickels were the entertainment in the Jewish ✡ Alps. What a great era..I'd love to see it come back. Simpler times...we went to The Catskills not Cancun..Believe or not, there are STILL Classic Catskill resorts up there...125 years and going..Like Sunny Hill in Freehold.  I stayed last spring.  Dan, did they put you up for the night 🌙 🤔 or you Day-tripped it? Mad Dog 

dko

While speaking about the B&G 100..
Anyone with experience using Armstrong S-25 over B&G 100?
Armstrong being $150-200 cheaper and is a drop in replacement for the B&G 100. Identical curves and dimensions.
Armstrong uses an S.S. shaft and permanently lubricated ball bearings that needs no maintenance (almost no one ever remembers to oil the B&G).

All things point to the Armstrong being a no brainer choice, but any other factors i'm missing? Bearings don't last as long? I can attest to B&G 100s working "forever" as long as they are maintained (couple locations going on 11-12 years). Just don't have much experience with the Armstrong to say anything, hoping someone has some direct experience working with these. Would very much like to know how they hold up long term.

WMno57

I pay 9.3 cents per Kwh.
@Hotrod , I enjoy reading about your R&D projects with new style systems. Quarter horses and race horses. I have a different philosophy about equipment and machines. I expect them to work without problems for a long time. So, I'll be keeping my work horses. Remembering to oil something is not a problem for me. Unlike the industry's perception of homeowners, I actually perform Preventative Maintenance.
I think my well water is rather tasty. My 75 YO boiler likes it also. My DIY basic water softener does the job for showering, dishes, and laundry.
I once had an International pickup truck with Goodyear Workhorse tires. 7.50 x 16 on lock ring wheels. Wish I still had that truck.

hot_rod

WMno57 said:

I pay 9.3 cents per Kwh. @Hotrod , I enjoy reading about your R&D projects with new style systems. Quarter horses and race horses. I have a different philosophy about equipment and machines. I expect them to work without problems for a long time. So, I'll be keeping my work horses. Remembering to oil something is not a problem for me. Unlike the industry's perception of homeowners, I actually perform Preventative Maintenance. I think my well water is rather tasty. My 75 YO boiler likes it also. My DIY basic water softener does the job for showering, dishes, and laundry. I once had an International pickup truck with Goodyear Workhorse tires. 7.50 x 16 on lock ring wheels. Wish I still had that truck.

I have no issues with retro stuff. I just bought a 79 Jeep to take me back to the memories of my youth 🚗. Ill be looking for some 16” rims and gnarly mud and snow tires😉
I learned to drive in my dads 65 Jeep FC 170. With loud hard riding 7:50 16 M&S tires year around

Like your circulator, the Jeep is not about cost or efficiency

DanHolohan

@Mad Dog_2 always a day trip. I was younger then. 

mattmia2

I only know what I learned form reading people that know far more than I ever will. I would be inclined to go with a magnetic dirt separator and wet rotor ciruculator in a closed gravity conversion. Systems where you can't control the oxygen very well like a hot water loop directly off the water in a steam boiler are where a 3 piece circulator might be a lot happier than a wet rotor ciruculator.

jumper

Thank you for trip down memory lane. Thinking back sometimes pump, coupling, & motor went forever but in different location same model failed regularly. My pet theory is that always on; correctly sized; and judiciously lubricated with correct oil goes indefinitely. An oil specialist might specify different lubes for pump; coupling; and motor.

WMno57

I use 30W non-detergent on mine. Supposed to be 20W ND, but my boiler lives a sheltered life in my 60 degree basement, so 30W should be good enough.

bmcservice

Thanks for the dive down memory lane. The Catskill Heyday will truly be missed. Along with the B&G 100 .

DanHolohan

Thanks for listening!

Mad Dog_2

Believe it or not, there are still some great, old school Catskills Resorts…Sunny Hill in Freehold is one. Mad Dog

Paul Pollets

My father's company did stock all of the B&G parts. The Catskill hotels were a part of his business…

DanHolohan

He and he alone, Paul.

Paul Pollets

I knew all the parts and would be happy to wait on the customers who needed them…

tomhaeussler

lately I’ve been working for a fairly large school district that has over 30 buildings that are all very old and they have hundreds of old B&G pumps and I have been showing the youngins how to replace motor mounts and when and why to replace them, I remember learning it from a boss I had back in the early 90s so it’s kinda like walking down memory lane every day for me!

DanHolohan

I love that. Please keep sharing. Thanks.

PC7060

”What I didn’t realize at the time was that the contractors were starting to think that the replacement part number for a failed B&G Series 100 coupler was not PZ-4291. It was Taco 007”

Perfectly written. At one time or another we have all tried to sell something we think is great but is over the hill. Like buggy whips to car enthusiasts. 😎

DanHolohan

And none of us can be holier than the church, unfortunately.

EBEBRATT-Ed

No one want to even change parts anymore they want to replace the whole thing whatever it is.

I was teaching at the Union Hall and I was talking to the students about replacing motor bearings.

They looked horrified, "why would you ever do that" they asked. I said well, I agree for small motors under 3hp you probably would just replace the motor but what if the motor is 75hp and is on top of a 6 story building in an air handler? A new motor may not be readily available and the cost of a $4000 motor and $6500 for the crane makes for a lot of expense. For the price of a couple of bearings and a little labor you can get it done now.

"Just replace the motor they said" "that's what we do"

Mad Dog_2

A throwaway culture....