Boiler brand - Laars?

extremenovice

Replacing my Williamson high efficiency.  Tech is recommending Laars.  Any experience with them?  Reliability? Ease to get parts?  Better than Utica?
Also, would we be better off going with a combi unit?  I heard with those if you loose power, you have no hot water.  We have a purepro indirect tank now.  Any guidance is helpful and appreciated!  The net seraches are so confusing
 Thank you. 

Ironman

What model do you now have and what model Laars are you considering?
 If you have an indirect, stay with that and don’t even consider a combi.

extremenovice

I can't find the model.  I must have left it at work.  I guess for now more curious as to brand reputation. Have a Williamson and it's Already shot at 10 years

GroundUp

Almost anything is better than a Utica. Laars has a wide variety, but assuming you're talking about a Mascot FT, they're okay for a budget boiler. I wouldn't expect much more than 10 years out of one, and tech support is almost nonexistent so beware of that, but I put in quite a few Mascots before I learned my lesson and they've been pretty trouble free so far. Just know that you get what you pay for, and they are about the cheapest boiler on the market. Keep the indirect though whatever you do, combi boilers are always terrible aside from possibly garage or cabin type applications where water usage is minimal.

extremenovice

Great info.  Thank you!  LAARS FLOOR MOUNT 199,000 BTU HEAT ONLY High Eff HW Boiler

EdTheHeaterMan

Why so big? Was there a load calculation completed by the contractor?

extremenovice

It is supposed to be similar to what we have but modulating I believe he said.  3 zone colonial 2500 sq feet.  Over kill? This is what it's replacing. Williamson GWC-105-N-T-5

EdTheHeaterMan

Read this about boiler sizing. Then show it to your contractor. Then ask for a load calculation.
https://heatinghelp.com/systems-help-center/how-that-steam-boiler-got-to-be-so-big/
Stay away from the combi since you already have a working indirect water heater. Based on the type of radiators you have and how they are sized, you may get a great value from a Modulating Condensing boiler but the smaller the better and you will need to load calculation to know how small you can go.

You may be fine with the 100 size. The 199 size is way overkill

EdTheHeaterMan

That Williamson boiler has cast iron sections and may be subject to failure if the near boiler piping is not installed according the the manufacturer recommendations. 10 years is too soon. Was the near boiler piping correct? Just because it heated comfortably, does not mean it was not slowly killing itself over the last ten years.

Install the Laars wrong and you may have the same result. I have worked on Williamson boilers that were over 30 years old, and they looked like the day they were installed. Others look like they were ready for the scrap pile in less than 10 years. It is all in the installing contractor and the proper maintenance.

extremenovice

Had companies out and said all looked well. Basically down to the Laars and Utica but don't want to be cheap and regret it

EdTheHeaterMan

You can get the Cadillac installed by a putz and you will have a piece of junk. You can get the economy model installed by the true professional and it will be the best thing since sliced bread.

It is all in the contractor. Not the brand of the equipment. Has anyone offered you Energy Kinetics? They have a good gas boiler.

extremenovice

Not yet, never heard of them? I'll look them up though

szwedj

You can see what equipment is available from Energy Kinetics at www.energykinetics.com and if you would like a list of dealers in your area, just give customer service a call at 800-323-2066

GroundUp

That 199 is almost double the size that you have now. You may need to buy a floor stand to hang a wall mount boiler of the correct size if you want it on the floor, but something that oversized is not going to do you any favors.

Pulse

Laars is just a rebranded bradford white, same company

extremenovice

Oh that's a relief. I believe I saw those are very good

Ironman

GroundUp said:

Almost anything is better than a Utica. Laars has a wide variety, but assuming you're talking about a Mascot FT, they're okay for a budget boiler. I wouldn't expect much more than 10 years out of one, and tech support is almost nonexistent so beware of that, but I put in quite a few Mascots before I learned my lesson and they've been pretty trouble free so far. Just know that you get what you pay for, and they are about the cheapest boiler on the market. Keep the indirect though whatever you do, combi boilers are always terrible aside from possibly garage or cabin type applications where water usage is minimal.

We use the Bradford White version and I couldn’t ask for better tech support; however, I have the cell number of the man who’s head of it and we’ve become well known to each other.

One positive thing about Laars tech support is that they’ve posted several step by step repair videos on YouTube.

If your contractor hasn’t done a load calc or radiation survey and wants to install a 199k boiler, I’d move away from him. That’s way too large for your house.

Depending on your locality and the construction of your house, you’re probably in the 60-75k btu range. And you only need that much on the coldest night of the year.

extremenovice

Interesting update... Had a different company out that said it was worth a shot trying to seal it with high temp seal.  He said it looks like it's just a little spot on the silicone?  The first tech is saying if he does that it will flood the inducer motor and gas valve.  Does that make sense?  The new tech said it's on a seam so just covering the small seam hole with high temp sealant

GroundUp

Ironman said:

GroundUp said:

Almost anything is better than a Utica. Laars has a wide variety, but assuming you're talking about a Mascot FT, they're okay for a budget boiler. I wouldn't expect much more than 10 years out of one, and tech support is almost nonexistent so beware of that, but I put in quite a few Mascots before I learned my lesson and they've been pretty trouble free so far. Just know that you get what you pay for, and they are about the cheapest boiler on the market. Keep the indirect though whatever you do, combi boilers are always terrible aside from possibly garage or cabin type applications where water usage is minimal.

We use the Bradford White version and I couldn’t ask for better tech support; however, I have the cell number of the man who’s head of it and we’ve become well known to each other.

One positive thing about Laars tech support is that they’ve posted several step by step repair videos on YouTube.

If your contractor hasn’t done a load calc or radiation survey and wants to install a 199k boiler, I’d move away from him. That’s way too large for your house.

Depending on your locality and the construction of your house, you’re probably in the 60-75k btu range. And you only need that much on the coldest night of the year.

Perhaps I jumped the gun a little bit with that statement. I have not installed a Laars in several years now, I believe prior to the Brute becoming available. At the time, support was on par with HTP's, who I left behind because of that fact. Then I had the same experience with Laars, and moved to Lochinvar.

hot_rod

I had a Laars Mascot combi in my mother in laws for 16 years without a single problem. Only opened it twice for cleaning! It had a few O rings leaks when I replaced it to sell the home.

It had thousands and thousands of on off cycles on them DHW side.

Ironman

extremenovice said:

Interesting update... Had a different company out that said it was worth a shot trying to seal it with high temp seal.  He said it looks like it's just a little spot on the silicone?  The first tech is saying if he does that it will flood the inducer motor and gas valve.  Does that make sense?  The new tech said it's on a seam so just covering the small seam hole with high temp sealant

I doubt that would seal to where it would hold pressure. Just going over top of sealant with more is not the way to approach it.
If it were disassembled, and the mating surfaces cleaned, then re-sealed and reassembled, perhaps it would hold if too much of the casting hadn’t eroded. If we’re talking about the leak coming from the water side of the boiler. If from the combustion side, then it MAY Abe worth a shot.

extremenovice

It's weird he took a pic.  Literally looks like manufacturer had a caulk like substance there.  And there's a small spot it's missing or worn through. So he sealed it from outside and replaced the pump on the floor

andiana_jones

I know this is an older thread, but I just wanted to point out that although this is a 199k btu boiler, it is not overkill, because this is a modulation boiler with a 10:1 turndown rate. This means that it will modualte down to as low as 20k btu's roughly, depending on the current heat demand. It is capable of delivering as high as 199k btu's, but that is at max capacity. If the the heat load doesn't require that based on water temps and outdoor air temps, it will not run at max capacity. For lack of a better term, it's kind of a one size fit's most. Laars has the best tech support out there, hands down. We install this exact boiler and couldn't be happier with the performance, and if needed, the tech support.

DanInNaperville

Laars uses a clever design for their FT series combi boilers. The "mini-indirect" tank is configured to provide hydraulic separation and a thermal buffer. Desirable items of boiler trim that usually have to be hung outside the boiler adding installation complexity and requiring more space.
I have no personal experience with them and don't know how solidly (or not solidly) they're built. But it's a great design.
https://www.laars.com/products/product/ft-series-floor-combi

Gerry_P

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1759774#Comment_1759774

Isn't it the other way around? I'm in Canada and the Mascot FT is called a Bradford White Brute. I've installed quite a few including in my own home and they have been trouble free so far. Using closely spaced tees on the heating loop to create a primary/secondary system is key though, or alternately a low loss header.