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How to Find Electrodes Model

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StanDarsh
StanDarsh Member Posts: 6
edited August 2023 in Oil Heating

Our heating oil boiler went out at the end of this season and our local company who we have a service contract with came out and inspected it. They said that the electrode points had been filed down too much that the gap was so wide it was either arcing to the nozzle, or to the spreader shroud that sits in front of the electrode tips. The tech mentioned that the part was so old they done sell them anymore and recommended a whole new boiler, or ideally a heat pump. Either of those solutions are pretty pricey and if we can get a couple electrodes that would allow us to save money and replace the whole system. Where can I find the model number of the part I need? Out transformer is new, and is not part of the original system, and the boiler is a Weil Mclain

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  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 23,455
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    Your "tech" is incompetent -- not only as a tech, but as a salesman. Get rid of him (or her). Any competent tech could replace those electrodes in about ten minutes -- he may even have them on his truck -- and in a couple of hours cleaning and adjustment have that old boiler running just fine.
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
    CLamb
  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 16,904
    edited August 2023
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    You need a new tech. He won't change the electrodes but he'll sell you a new unit. Now granted, it might be time for a new unit, but he already sounds shady.
    Another tech can buy those electrodes in any supply house that has oil burner equipment.
    You shouldn't really work on oil burners without the proper tools, knowledge, and combustion testing equipment.

    Your "tech" is incompetent -- not only as a tech, but as a salesman. Get rid of him (or her). Any competent tech could replace those electrodes in about ten minutes -- he may even have them on his truck -- and in a couple of hours cleaning and adjustment have that old boiler running just fine.

    This! Whoever that is makes everyone in the business look bad.

    That's a Wayne HS burner, also known as a Blue Angel. It's as good a burner as anything else out there if you set it up properly. R.E. Michel (who only sells to contractors) still shows it as a current model, and carries replacement electrodes.

    Tell us where you're located, @StanDarsh - we might know someone who can actually help you.
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Towson, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
    StanDarshEBEBRATT-Ed
  • HVACNUT
    HVACNUT Member Posts: 5,865
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    I don't know about the Blue Angel being just as good as any out there, but electrodes should be readily available. The replacement might be a one piece porcelain, If I remember correctly. 
    I see the junction box for the primary, but I don't see the primary. 
    Is it a cad cell or stack primary?
    That 14 thousand volts sitting there at the igniter is cool too.
    STEVEusaPAStanDarsh
  • StanDarsh
    StanDarsh Member Posts: 6
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    Your "tech" is incompetent -- not only as a tech, but as a salesman. Get rid of him (or her). Any competent tech could replace those electrodes in about ten minutes -- he may even have them on his truck -- and in a couple of hours cleaning and adjustment have that old boiler running just fine.

    Thanks! I am in Western NC. I really felt it was a simple fix and was unsure why they would be so hard to find. It was interesting that the electrodes I have, ont he opposite side of the nozzle, come back, 45 degree angle op maybe 1/4 inch and then go straight back to where the transformer springs reset on it. Seems most electrodes these days are just straight rods, but mine are flat copperish looking lines.
  • StanDarsh
    StanDarsh Member Posts: 6
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    HVACNUT said:

    I don't know about the Blue Angel being just as good as any out there, but electrodes should be readily available. The replacement might be a one piece porcelain, If I remember correctly. 
    I see the junction box for the primary, but I don't see the primary. 
    Is it a cad cell or stack primary?
    That 14 thousand volts sitting there at the igniter is cool too.

    For checking to see if there is a flame? There is a cad cell. I went ahead and took the electrode apart and SEEMS like I could reuse the pieces that go back and make contact with the transformer springs. From watching videos it seems easy enough to line up the electrodes if I get one of the gauges and spacers, but want to find a reliable tech to make sure it has the right alignment, including fuel and air mix.
    CLamb
  • StanDarsh
    StanDarsh Member Posts: 6
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    You need a new tech. He won't change the electrodes but he'll sell you a new unit. Now granted, it might be time for a new unit, but he already sounds shady.
    Another tech can buy those electrodes in any supply house that has oil burner equipment.
    You shouldn't really work on oil burners without the proper tools, knowledge, and combustion testing equipment.

    Thanks for the confirmation. I will try to reach out and fine someone who can get me a reliable second opinion.
  • MikeAmann
    MikeAmann Member Posts: 998
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    Stan, I am not suggesting that you work on this burner yourself, but if you can't locate new electrodes, I think that I might have a new set. I will look tonight. Can you take some measurements?
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 15,635
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    Westwood products sells electrodes for most any burner made. They are in NJ. Find a supply house that carries Westwood if you can't find the oem electrodes which would probably be better.

    A "technician" who tries to sell you a boiler because of electrodes is an idiot, Worse case would be to replace the burner if the controls are outdated you might consider that. If the boiler is not leaking or making CO I would continue to run it.

    Looks like it has been arcing off the nozzle. The other thing that IRKS me is "the electrodes have been filed down too much"

    No one files electrodes.
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 15,635
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    Beckett bought out Westwood but they are still in business.
  • HVACNUT
    HVACNUT Member Posts: 5,865
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    Definitely not DIY, but when you find a good oil tech, he or she would be happy to use your parts in this situation. 
    Don't forget smoke, draft, and combustion tests.
    BTW, what CC primary do you have? 
  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 16,904
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    HVACNUT said:

    I don't know about the Blue Angel being just as good as any out there.........

    We have a few in our customer base. They run well, but of course we know how to set them up and tune them o:)

    A good burner, to me, is one where I can get good combustion numbers and zero smoke, and not have a mess to clean out the next year. That covers pretty much any flame-retention burner out there, assuming it's properly installed and tuned.
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Towson, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
    EdTheHeaterMan
  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 8,128
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    I'm totally impressed that the service contract provider was able to get that burner to operate for as long as they did. Looks like the nozzle has been collecting some spark from those electrodes for some time. Do you think that nozzle might be more than one year old. North Carolina... Oil Heat... not as many technicians as say Massachusetts or New York. You may get lucky or you may need to look for another oil company that has a good service tech.

    Edward Young Retired

    After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?

    EBEBRATT-Ed
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 15,635
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    @EdTheHeaterMan

    If one exists in that area
    EdTheHeaterMan
  • StanDarsh
    StanDarsh Member Posts: 6
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    MikeAmann said:

    Stan, I am not suggesting that you work on this burner yourself, but if you can't locate new electrodes, I think that I might have a new set. I will look tonight. Can you take some measurements?

    Sorry took me some time. Foster parent and had a new placement that needed alot of attention :)

    Insulator
    3 1/5 inches Long
    4/10 inch diameter


    Tip (approximate since it has that bend)
    Maybe extends 4/10ths inch out of insulator
    Maybe 7/10 horizontal after bending


    Copper Contact tab
    Maybe 7/10th inch perpendicular to the insulator
    3 inches long after right angle
  • StanDarsh
    StanDarsh Member Posts: 6
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    HVACNUT said:

    Definitely not DIY, but when you find a good oil tech, he or she would be happy to use your parts in this situation. 
    Don't forget smoke, draft, and combustion tests.
    BTW, what CC primary do you have? 

    Thanks I did some asking around and seems like most people in the area no longer use oil burners and everyone is changing to heat pumps. Ill get these parts and get the techs to come back out one last time to install them.