Oil fired boiler replacement time with oil or propane?

Bernie123

Hi, My NY boiler is 23 years old and works without any problems. I am being told they should be replaced every 10-15 yrs. Is there a risk of leaking and flooding the basement if nobody was home. Is there any way to check the condition of the tank? Does anyone know if it would be better/cheaper to switch to propane. Any thoughts or advice would be appreciated.
Thanks

Steamhead

Bernie123 said:

Hi, My NY boiler is 23 years old and works without any problems. I am being told they should be replaced every 10-15 yrs. Is there a risk of leaking and flooding the basement if nobody was home. Is there any way to check the condition of the tank? Does anyone know if it would be better/cheaper to switch to propane. Any thoughts or advise would be appreciated.
Thanks

Steam or hot-water?

Where are you located?

EBEBRATT-Ed

It is seldom that a boiler "lets go" and floods a basement. They usually start with some seeping and a small puddle. Many boilers last a lot longer than 23 years.

MY HW boiler was 40 years old and never leaked. I replaced it because the new buyer wanted a new boiler.

As @Steamhead said hot water or steam?

MaxMercy

23 isn't old for a standard boiler (it's well past bonus time for a mod/con).

Regarding the propane vs oil debate, you must check the prices in your area. Where I am (Connecticut), oil is always cheaper per gallon *and* oil has much more BTU than propane, so oil is far cheaper than propane or NG.

Propane may be cheaper in your area, but don't forget that propane has a lot less BTU per gallon.

Bernie123

Hi, Thanks for the comments. It is a hot water boiler with radiators in each room. I live in Nova Scotia, Canada. I have been told the best way to go is a propane combi boiler because during the summer it only runs when there is a need for domestic hot water as opposed to keeping the boiler full of hot water all year.

Bernie123

Does anyone think an electric boiler would be a good choice for a boiler??

Steamhead

Not unless your electric rates are extremely low.

Hot_water_fan

Electric boiler means one thing, electric hot water system can mean an electric boiler or electric heat pump. 

Jamie Hall

Personally, I would NOT recommend an electric boiler -- Nova Scotia's electricity rates are high. Nor would I recommend a heat pump -- it does tend to get a wee bit chilly for weeks at a time, and unless the whole heating system was designed to operate on warm rather than hot water... no.

For @Bernie123 , if your propane costs less than about 3/4 of your local oil, oil will be less expensive. A combi does make some sense, though, if it is properly sized -- you don't have that oil boiler running in the summer. However, and this is a big however, they need more maintenance and they need specialized parts if they give trouble. If, and only if, your supplier can guarantee that they have the techs to maintain it and a stock of parts for it, it might work for you. Depends a little on where you are -- Sydney, Halifax, Truro, maybe. Yarmouth perhaps. Cheticamp? Mabou? um... no.

hot_rod

About .17 for power, .10 for off peak

Plug you other fuel costs in here

If you could run a heat pump and a buffer, that .10 might work out

Hot_water_fan

.10 for off peak

Cheap! That’ll crush oil (may as well keep the oil boiler anyway, it’s not hurting anything). 

Dave Carpentier

Over here in northern Ontario, I could save some reasonable coin switching from oil to a modcon with natgas (they finally laid the pipes on this rural road !).
But, my boiler is also 23 yrs old (cast iron Olsen). The design tech at the supply house thought it was a shame that I was considering going modcon bc according to him, my boiler should be good for 30-40yrs or more. He appreciated the fuel costs thing, of course.
We use about 2000L of oil. If I crunch that at 75% eff, and compare to modcon at 85% (both fairly conservative, i think), we would save $2000/yr.

The upfront cost is significant. The periodic maintenance cost is waaay higher than the existing boiler. If you have to hire someone to do the maint, add that too. In the end, from the pros comments on here, you end up having to replace the modcon in a timeframe that is certainly shorter than the old cast iron conventionals. So, consider those costs.

There may be some govt promos to switch away from oil, check into that.

For the hot water, Im a fan of electric element water. I have no intention of running my boiler in the summer and then having to rid the heat with a/c. Plus, figure those extra "miles" on the boiler every summer.

HVACNUT

Can you post some pics of the existing? Is the New Yorker cast iron or steel? 
There's a lot of math and a lot of variables in retro conversions. There's also what's comfortable for you.
Repairs and parts availability are also things to consider with a mod con. A good oil tech usually has anything they need right in the van to get you running in no time. With a mod con, not so much.
There's also the gas power burner conversion. Maybe the best of both worlds. 

hot_rod

Dave Carpentier said:

Over here in northern Ontario, I could save some reasonable coin switching from oil to a modcon with natgas (they finally laid the pipes on this rural road !).
But, my boiler is also 23 yrs old (cast iron Olsen). The design tech at the supply house thought it was a shame that I was considering going modcon bc according to him, my boiler should be good for 30-40yrs or more. He appreciated the fuel costs thing, of course.
We use about 2000L of oil. If I crunch that at 75% eff, and compare to modcon at 85% (both fairly conservative, i think), we would save $2000/yr.

The upfront cost is significant. The periodic maintenance cost is waaay higher than the existing boiler. If you have to hire someone to do the maint, add that too. In the end, from the pros comments on here, you end up having to replace the modcon in a timeframe that is certainly shorter than the old cast iron conventionals. So, consider those costs.

There may be some govt promos to switch away from oil, check into that.

For the hot water, Im a fan of electric element water. I have no intention of running my boiler in the summer and then having to rid the heat with a/c. Plus, figure those extra "miles" on the boiler every summer.

When you do get to the point of needing a replacement don’t fear the mod con.
If you are handy with tools, invest in an entry level combustion analyzers, watch some tune
up videos and service it yourself. Some of the manufacturers have service videos at their websites, so you get factory training online.

Bernie123

Here is a couple of pictures of my boiler. How do you know when it is time to replace it. I also have a heat pump with 2 heads in the house.

Jamie Hall

Bernie123 said:

Here is a couple of pictures of my boiler. How do you know when it is time to replace it. I also have a heat pump with 2 heads in the house.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. That is, if it is running well and not leaking and heating your home, it's fine. The only slight caution on that is that if you do decide to get something like a mod/con or whole house heat pumps, take into account the lead time on finding a reliable supplier and getting them shipped to you and installed.

On the heat pump you have now. Is it capable of maintaining the temperature in the two spaces you have it in with the main boiler turned off? If so, you might be able to get away with more units and more heads. Whether you can use the existing radiation, however, would need an assessment of what they can provide in terms of heat with an air to hot water heat pump vs. the heating load of the structure. If you are thinking of doing that, you need those numbers first. It's a different ballgame.

Bernie123

My biggest concern is we go south for the winters and would not be here if it starts leaking.

Jamie Hall

Bernie123 said:

My biggest concern is we go south for the winters and would not be here if it starts leaking.

Ah. Well, at the risk of sounding gloomy, a leaking boiler is not the only reason your house could get cold and freeze and be damaged. In fact, it's not even the most likely reason -- there are such things as power failures.

I have recommended before, and will again: if you leave a house or other building vacant in the winter, you have two choices to avoid damage. One, fully winterize the building and turn it off and let if freeze. There's a lot to be said for that. Power off. Water off and fully drained. Electricity off. Gas off if you have gas (and that's either LP or natrual gas). Windows and doors really secure. The other choice is to have a reliable person who will check on the house frequently. I don't mean just drive by, but actually go in and make sure all is well. If you have anything much of value in the house, the latter choice is the better. Does it cost money? It does. Can it same money? Well... we were recently hired to help pick up the pieces from a house which froze and the "reliable" person never entered it. It's a high six figure total loss.

WMno57

Bernie123 said:

My biggest concern is we go south for the winters and would not be here if it starts leaking.

Shut off the water to the boiler. I leave mine shut off all the time. I do have to add water once a season. 75 year old boiler.
In my opinion, Forced Air heat is better for vacation homes in winter climates. This is a hydronic site, everyone loves hydronic heat here. But if you go away for a week in the winter.......................

hot_rod

you could get a thermostat or alarm  that would notify you of a cold condition

Jamie Hall

hot_rod said:

you could get a thermostat or alarm  that would notify you of a cold condition

And then what do you do? And will it work if the power is off and no internet?

Bernie123

That sounds like a good idea, thanks for the input

Jamie Hall

Just to be a wet blanket -- the damage in the house I mentioned occurred during a power failure. There was a low temp alarm arrangement which may or may not have tried to send a signal, but no power, no 'net, no alarm. It was a water pipe which burst (just one), not a heating pipe.

hot_rod

Jamie Hall said:

hot_rod said:

you could get a thermostat or alarm  that would notify you of a cold condition

And then what do you do? And will it work if the power is off and no internet?

What if your “reliable” friend doesn’t hear or answer the phone?
Plenty of what if games can be played.

Jamie Hall

You're right, of course, @hot_rod . The reliable person has to be. Sometimes friends are... sometimes not. Not to toot our own horn (yeah, right), we may -- or may not -- be friends with the owners of the various houses we look after when folks are away. What we are is bonded and insured, with a very definite contract as to what we will or will not do. That's part of what you pay for.